Discussions with Amazon CS about PW Defects

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by NullNix

Everyone keeps talking about these hues... I don't know if I was fantastically lucky or if I am just blind as a bat, but my device is hueless, with a single dust speck in the middle of the screen (completely ignorable) and a whitish-yellow screen cast. Batch 502. I've never had to send one back: this is not only the only Paperwhite I've ever owned but the only one I've ever seen, now I'm not riding the trains every day and surrounded by other Kindlers.

I was actually expecting hues and was very surprised to not get any -- given that the Paperwhite's light guide is basically a fibre optic cable on its side mixed with a diffraction grating, I expected some diffraction effects, but I can see none.

It depends on the ambient light levels, as well as the setting of the Kindle itself. If I read on the Kindle without its light on, then the screen is greyish-yellow, like the one from the Touch was. If I turn the light on, the page gets whiter and whiter, until it starts to "glow" like an LCD. Therefore, I prefer a setting to mix the ambient light with that of the Kindle itself in such a way that the screen just looks white, and not glowing like an LCD.

However, if I turn the ambient lighting off, then the screen starts to fringe all over after some time: green and purple, and it actually starts to shimmer before my eyes. It becomes very hard to read for me; in the same way an LCD is hard to read for me in complete darkness.

[JLeighs]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The reason every one is different is due to very tiny variations in how parallel the two faces of the light diffuser are. It's impossible to make them all look exactly the same.

Ah, I see. I was unaware of that. Thank you for explaining.

[heatherlynn]

Originally Posted by xendula

Is his name Andrew? It may be a coincidence, but "Amazon Andrew" contacted two of us on this thread, so I wonder if it's just him or if they have more than him helping customers with defective PWs out.

his name was darren

[soulfuldog]

Originally Posted by JLeighs

I just think that those of us who clearly notice the hues are in the minority, and therefore Amazon really has no incentive to do anything about it.

Definitely this. Though it's not just that the people who find them noticeable are a minority, it's also the amount of people who are happy enough to settle on one that's still far from perfect but maybe not too bad (which I personally wouldn't after parting with over £100!). But apart from that, inherent in the design or not, there are plenty of very acceptable PW's out there, despite some people posting on here about going through countless replacements.

At times it feels as if some people are being hyper critical, really looking for faults. I can see colour hues, dark shadowing etc in some of the photos people have posted, but some I don't see anything wrong with. Plus, any PW I've seen in the flesh (only about 6 or 7 to be fair), have looked pretty good to me.

Also, by hyper critical I mean if you compare it to how opinion of the Kobo Glo differs. The vast majority seemed really happy with the Glo when it was first released, the slight blue tinge to the light was pointed out but no one seemed to find it much of a problem. Then I read how newer versions are much better because the light doesn't have as much of a blue tinge. If that had been the PW I think we'd have been hearing loads of complaints about it?!

[randomzombie]

Originally Posted by HarryT

If someone is bothered by this (and personally it doesn't bother me in the slightest) it's pointless to keep on getting replacements. Bright specks are a different matter - that's a fault.

Not really pointless. There's no arguing the fact that hue spots per PW vary in number, color, and intensity. If a customer ends up after five exchanges with a better product, how is that pointless? Again the old-hat denigration of the color-sensitive with you - do you take it personally?

[drewh]

Originally Posted by l_macd

At times it feels as if some people are being hyper critical, really looking for faults.

I can understand how people might think that when some of us have had repeated bad ones, but really (for me personally anyway) its not true at all. My original one is fine - no colour hues though the shadows are quite noticeable at the bottom and theres a bright patch of white bottom right. BUT, as an example, on the one I got with the line gap, the shadows were all but gone - which shows they arent just a 'they're on all Paperwhites' thing. I would have been 100% happy with that if not for the line gap - which is appalling quality control no matter what.

I'd hope that like me, people just want a good one. Even just between the 502&503 replacements and the 603, the screen colour on max brightness is wildly different. Yellowish compared to definite white on the 603. That means they arent using consistent materials or something is screwed in the manufacturing process. OR, they're changing things slightly as they continue - though then the 604 builds should be improved, but people on here have had quite a few issues with them too.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by drewh

I'd hope that like me, people just want a good one. Even just between the 502&503 replacements and the 603, the screen colour on max brightness is wildly different.

But, with the greatest respect, taking pictures of the screen in the dark with the light on maximum brightness, although it certainly emphasises the colour fringes on the screen, it's not a realistic depiction of what the screen looks like in everyday use. I certainly don't have the screen on maximum brightness when I read in the dark - do you? And in daylight, on medium light levels, colour fringing will be a lot less visible, if visible at all.

My point is simply that these are not defective units (I'm not talking about the one you had with the misaligned screen - that clearly WAS defective). They may not be to the user's personal liking, but that doesn't mean that they're defective. If a person swaps a PW five times before they get a unit that they personally like, that's probably wiping out all Amazon's profit from at least a dozen "normal" sales, and that's going to lead to higher prices for everybody. If someone is unhappy with the colour fringing that's inherent in the light diffuser, it would be a lot more sensible to buy a different reader instead. It's unreasonable to expect Amazon to supply them with limitless devices until they finally receive one which satisfies their personal whim about what's a good screen (IMHO).

[Yolina]

Originally Posted by drewh

which is appalling quality control no matter what.

Absolutely - I think that's one of the main gripes really. It's pretty much like QC stops at "does it switch on" and everything else is irrelevant...

That means they arent using consistent materials or something is screwed in the manufacturing process. OR, they're changing things slightly as they continue - though then the 604 builds should be improved, but people on here have had quite a few issues with them too.

The difference between the 502 and the 604 I got was staggering, with the 604 being much better (did I get the only decent 604? ) Light at 24 on the 502 was the same brightness as about 17 on the 604. Also the 502 had some pink and green visible pretty much at any light level, the 604 only has some green visible when used at unrealistic light levels and I can't see it in normal use

[xtine]

Originally Posted by HarryT

But, with the greatest respect, taking pictures of the screen in the dark with the light on maximum brightness, although it certainly emphasises the colour fringes on the screen, it's not a realistic depiction of what the screen looks like in everyday use. I certainly don't have the screen on maximum brightness when I read in the dark - do you? And in daylight, on medium light levels, colour fringing will be a lot less visible, if visible at all.

You're right that the color fringing is minimal in daylight. I absolutely love using it during the day but at night, the bruising is actually more visible at lower light settings (in my case anyway) -- which means I have to keep my PW a little brighter than comfortable, just to be able to see the text more clearly.

[soulfuldog]

drewh I wasn't really directing the 'hyper critical' comment particularly at those who have been playing the replacement merry-go-round, it was more in comparison to how much more accepting people have been with the Kobo Glo (admittedly that is far easier to do since the Kobo appears to have less issues with it's lighting), and also as HarryT mentions, the people who turn up the light to full and take photos in a dark room trying to find the faults (if I had a PW where the colours were showing at low light settings in the dark as xtine has just posted, I'd just return it).

Where I differ from HarryT, is that I don't think it's just down to people being particularly colour sensitive and that the same colour hues appear on all units. The photos posted in this very forum prove that isn't the case.

I appreciate that the light at full in the dark scenario only highlights the colour hues and that they are still very apparent on some units under normal reading. The majority of PW's are probably fine and the colour hues aren't really noticeable, but there are some defective units too, noticeable colours, murky screens, duller lights, more shadows from the lights, light bleed, white specks and the variation between them is pretty startling.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by l_macd

Where I differ from HarryT, is that I don't think it's just down to people being particularly colour sensitive and that the same colour hues appear on all units.

To clarify, I'm certainly not saying that the same colour hues appear on all PWs. They vary considerably from one device to another. But what one person will find unacceptable won't bother another person in the slightest. My point is that if you are the sort of person who is bothered by colour hues (and it's not a criticism of anyone to say that some people are) you'd probably be well advised to get a reading device other than a PW.

[soulfuldog]

Ok HarryT, sorry I misunderstood what you meant. I probably agree with you then in that case....

[drewh]

haha - enjoying reading this. Basically, no one was trying to offend anyone else!

L_macd, I know you didn't mean people like myself on the replacement merry-go-round, but I just meant I'm sure some might think we're being overly fussy.

I think what gets to me is the huge variability. I've said it to death, but the line gap screen to me is perfect - ZERO color hues (at max brightness or any brightness, in any ambient lighting), perfect white light (compared to 502), shadows at bottom all but gone compared to my other one (but I'm fine with that one too). So why the heck can't Amazon consistently produce a screen like the line gap one (without the gap ha)?

I think thats the annoyance. Obviously Amazon came up with an innovative solution to light the screen. But perhaps its caused more manufacturing issues. I understand the idea behind the diffraction grating, but could Amazon not use identical LEDs, identical sheets of flattened optical fibre with the other piece and just control quality better (make the tolerances much smaller)? Would people agree there or is it totally out of their control?

[Yolina]

Tighter manufacturing tolerances = more expensive and so I doubt very much that Amazon would bother.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by drewh

I think thats the annoyance. Obviously Amazon came up with an innovative solution to light the screen. But perhaps its caused more manufacturing issues. I understand the idea behind the diffraction grating, but could Amazon not use identical LEDs, identical sheets of flattened optical fibre with the other piece and just control quality better (make the tolerances much smaller)? Would people agree there or is it totally out of their control?

Unfortunately, the colour fringing in the light diffuser is caused by tolerance variations of the order of the wavelength of light. It's simply not economically feasible to make them all identical to that level of precision.