To be honest: I'm so tired of it

[rkomar]

Originally Posted by HarryT

About 35% of web servers run Windows Server, while almost 50% of server sales revenue is Windows Server (Source). Windows Server is not quite so insignificant as you suggest .

Doesn't this just mean that many are putting together servers based on free software (i.e. linux or BSD) on their own? Or is it that Windows costs that much more than other servers?

Anyway, 35% of web servers is more than I imagined their share to be.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I must respectfully disagree. Amazon dominates the English-language eBook market; many authors report over 90% of their sales occur at Amazon. There are certainly a lot of different ePub devices, but their actual market share, combined, is less than that of Amazon. Given the self-destruction of B&N (Amazon's only serious rival in the US market), I can see nothing but an increase of market share for Amazon in the foreseeable
future.

There is more than English to read in this world, and that's a market for which Amazon does not yet cater. About everything that Amazon has in azw-format in English is available in epub, but not the other way around.

Apple iPhone vs. All Android Phones is turning out like this:



The tipping point was in 2010.

Something similiar will happen to the Kindle, somewhere in the future.

I've been in the IT business for close to 30 years, so yes, I am familiar with the marketplace. About 35% of web servers run Windows Server, while almost 50% of server sales revenue is Windows Server (Source). Windows Server is not quite so insignificant as you suggest .

In that case, you should remember how the upgradable PC, running an operating system across several manufacturers' machines, killed off all the other "Our computer, Our operating system" options, including the at that time, much more advanced Commodore Aminga.

Testing how many internet servers are running MS Windows is very shaky. Your source actually says that the results can vary depending on the way the measurement is done.

Often, a one-company system is the first on the market, and it gets very big because there are no alternatives. Then the alternatives start to emerge, they'll band together using one standard. The pioneering system will most of the time not join this standard, which will eventually lead to it being swamped, and going extinct, or living in a small niche of it's own.

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

This would be a better point if Apple App store sales weren't dwarfing Android app sales (by a factor of something like 3-1, despite Android's larger marketshare, or if data didn't show that mobile web browsing was 67% ios, 33% android.

There are a variety of Android phones, but it seems like a lot of Android sales are to people who are basically interested in having a phone for calling, e-mailing, and texting...and little else. Which suggests that, for people interesting in buying apps, the "walled garden" is not much of a deterrent.

The only thing you are now describing is that Apple people put more time and money into their products than Android buyers. Even if Android is twice as big in market share, it can easily be the case that Apple buyers spend twice as much time and money on their products.

The same can be said for the Amazon Kindle: they may sell more Kindles, and they may sell a lot of ebooks, but nobody knows how big all combined epub sales are.

I don't see these areas in which Windows doesn't compete as being very relevant to closed vs. open systems. Windows makes a desktop OS and is dominant in that market. Windows doesn't make embedded, say, airplane controllers, so I don't see that the fact that other companies do is very relevant to Windows success.

Windows does have embedded systems, they do have a server version, and a supercomputer version. However, as soon as *anything* has to be customized, which is often the case for any system smaller or bigger than a desktop/laptop, then Windows is out of the equation.

The only place where Windows now has a very firm foothold is the desktop and laptop market, and these are struggeling, because so many people who don't need a computer to get stuff done actually move on to tablets for things such as browsing and watching video's on Youtube.

Oh, and Microsoft and others are becoming more and more restrictive with regards to licensing, which also does not help. Read the latest on Office 2013: a license will be tied to a computer, just like OEM Windows. New computer, new Office. I already know a few people who have said that they will NOT upgrade from 2010.

Having stuff controlled by only one company is just a receipe for getting a lot of problems, if you buy into that system, IMHO. At some point, more and more people realize that, and then... *poof*. Gone.

[travger]

It makes me sad to see how USA sets (stupid) restrictions to freedom and has clout to enforce them around the world. Hundred years ago it was nudity in movies, now it's copyright - both can be taken to ridiculous lengths. What's so wrong letting others hear that I'm listening a catchy tune? It should be viewed as free advertising (or noise pollution ).
I saw in TV somebody remembering how they were shooting a bed-scene in 40-s: at least one foot had to be touching the floor at all times (with of course minimal skin exposure). Then around 90-s or so it seems like bed-scenes are mandatory - every self-respecting movie wants to have 5 minutes of naked arms and backs and legs. Now there's topless girls in commercials and nobody bats an eye.
I hope that things around copyright get more sensible, but realize the slim chance of it actually happening. So I confess: if I consider a law stupid and against common sense, I will break it. If I have paid for the book, it's mine. Forever. For my grandchildren. They may prefer newer version with moving pictures and sound effects (or holograms) and can buy it, but they should be able to convert and read my text-only copy too.

I usually read mobi, bookmark the problems I find and then correct them in epub. Sometimes I find the formatting so irritating that I have to correct and convert before reading, but then mostly I don't look farther than first chapter and css. Delete text alignement & font-color & font-size, top & bottom margin:0, add indent for paragraphs; delete background color. Most unacceptable for me is when I can't change the font size in my Palm - it could mean no reading. Any fine tuning can be done after reading when I don't have to worry about spoilers.
Lately I hit on the idea to add more cover pictures, for example in case of omnibus, at the beginning of every book the cover of the first edition and in the end some other nice cover/artwork (I won't share it).

Some time ago I contacted Baen about errors in their book. Reply was something along the lines that 'we try to keep it as it was in the paper book'. Puh-lease! Space yarn is not the Gutenberg Bible where you look at the typo and imagine how the man had a sleepless night. There is no excuse for errors in the ebook, especially typos. I don't want to believe that thousands have read a book and not a single one brings mistakes to publisher's attention. Maybe people just don't complain enough.
Another example from Baen - mobi has no scenebreaks (and yes, it could be confusing), epub has <p class="calibre4">&nbsp;</p>. I found out the hard way that Mobi Creator/Reader ignores this, so I suspect they just tossed decent-looking epub into Reader. I don't know if I'm right, but so far I have an impression that only sure thing for empty space to work in mobi is <br />. Now I have <p class="calibre4"><br /></p> in epub, in book view there was no change.

The books I've downloaded from PG are rather nice, have just to remove spacing from paragraphs and add indent.

I really loved Katsunami's idea of offering improved ePub to the publisher. And it is morally right to upload it for the whole wide world if publisher is not interested in improving their stock. People like that should be driven out of business.
At least with living authors it's possible to complain to them and the publisher.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by GeoffC

But it's not a simple as that, surely - they would have to re-generate all the books they've 'sold' in .azw/.mobi formats; wouldn't they ?

Not if they added ePub and left KF8 & Mobi.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I must respectfully disagree. Amazon dominates the English-language eBook market; many authors report over 90% of their sales occur at Amazon. There are certainly a lot of different ePub devices, but their actual market share, combined, is less than that of Amazon. Given the self-destruction of B&N (Amazon's only serious rival in the US market), I can see nothing but an increase of market share for Amazon in the foreseeable
future.

ePub dominates the world. You do leave out a lot of the reading population of the world when you say these thinngs in order to support your position. Take the world into account and ePub beats Kindle.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

Windows does have embedded systems, they do have a server version, and a supercomputer version. However, as soon as *anything* has to be customized, which is often the case for any system smaller or bigger than a desktop/laptop, then Windows is out of the equation.

The only place where Windows now has a very firm foothold is the desktop and laptop market,

Again I really must disagree with you. Windows Server has an EXTREMELY healthy share of the server market, and its use is most assuredly not "out of the question" where customisation is required. I work, as a systems analyst, for one of the largest computer companies in the world. The division I work in does big projects - for government, multinationals, etc. The overwhelming majority of that work is Windows Server based, not Unix. Many of the largest organisations in the world use Microsoft server products: SQL Server, Exchange Server, Sharepoint, Commerce Server, etc. All these large-scale corporate products are leaders in their market sector. To think that Microsoft is "desktop only" is a very restricted view of the world: it most assuredly is not.

[mohadib]

Yep. Ebook formatting is a problem that baffles me. I just completed a new book and the conversion process with the conversion formatter(s) was tedious, harrowing, and at times...frustrating. It took a few months (and not a few dollars) just to get the conversions to look professional. Although the way my book is formatted did pose some difficulties, why on earth in today's technological world do these limitations exist? I will say that the final ebook formatter I worked with did a great job and was exceedingly patient. I and my editors spent a LOT of time formatting my manuscript but then had to make concessions in keeping it looking the same way in an e-reader due to the limitations of the conversion processes (MOBI and EPUB). After a considerable amount of code strips and revisions, we got them looking good but sheesh...the horror of it all!

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

ePub dominates the world. You do leave out a lot of the reading population of the world when you say these thinngs in order to support your position. Take the world into account and ePub beats Kindle.

Let's look at this logically, Jon.

1. Amazon has the majority share of the eBook market in both the US and UK.
2. The US and UK markets, combined, constitute around 85-90% of world-wide eBook sales.

Those are indisputable facts. It's therefore nonsense to say the ePub sales "dominate" world-wide. "Dominate" means something like "massively out-sells all its rivals", yes? Can you explain how ePub can "dominate" when at best it could out-perform Amazon in something like 10-15% of the market?

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Let's look at this logically, Jon.

1. Amazon has the majority share of the eBook market in both the US and UK.
2. The US and UK markets, combined, constitute around 85-90% of world-wide eBook sales.

Those are indisputable facts. It's therefore nonsense to say the ePub sales "dominate" world-wide. "Dominate" means something like "massively out-sells all its rivals", yes? Can you explain how ePub can "dominate" when at best it could out-perform Amazon in something like 10-15% of the market?

If you count the different markets and consider the English markets to be 1 or 2. Then there are probably more markets were ePub dominates.

[MikeB1972]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Let's look at this logically, Jon.

1. Amazon has the majority share of the eBook market in both the US and UK.
2. The US and UK markets, combined, constitute around 85-90% of world-wide eBook sales.

Those are indisputable facts. It's therefore nonsense to say the ePub sales "dominate" world-wide. "Dominate" means something like "massively out-sells all its rivals", yes? Can you explain how ePub can "dominate" when at best it could out-perform Amazon in something like 10-15% of the market?

Harry, I know that everyone assumes that Amazon has majority share of the market, but has anyone ever seen any actual figures.

In the UK at least Smiths actively promote the Kobo (Admitedly Waterstones promote the Kindle - and sell ePubs on their own website), Kobo seem to be in a very healthy place in Canada as well and Rakuten has a good global presence to promote ePub.
Nook has a sizeable (Although not majority) chunk in the US
Google must be starting to make inroads around the world.
Sony must still have a fraction of a percent
Books on Board, Powells, Books a Million, BOL etc all sell epubs
Amongst the publishers eHarlequin/Mills & Boon probably sell most direct but Random House, and others have websites selling direct as well (in epub)

Baen sell in any format so I'll ignore them for the moment.

IOS has their own version and can be ignored in the ePub/Amazon cage fight.

Adding all of these together with the smaller publishers (Angry Robot, Ridan, Black Library etc) may still come to less than Amazon, but how much less - and for how long? (Or are amazon still gaining ground?)

Even if they do have a massive advantage at the moment iPple's AAC format sold vastly more than mp3's back in the day but mp3 dominates now.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by MikeB1972

Harry, I know that everyone assumes that Amazon has majority share of the market, but has anyone ever seen any actual figures.

Amazon don't report sale figures, but ask in the writers' forum here at MR. You'll find that pretty much everyone reports that the overwhelming majority of their sales (often 90%+) come via Amazon. Sales at the ePub bookstores are negligible by comparison.

Do a Google search for "Amazon ebook market share". You'll find that different analysts have different opinions, but they all say that Amazon have anywhere between a 70% and 90% share of the US eBook market, and their UK share is even higher, because there is no strong 2nd place player in the UK market, as B&N are in the US. Let's be generous and say that Amazon have only a 70% share of the combined US/UK ebook market. That still puts them considerably over 50% of global eBook sales.

[latepaul]

In any case it doesn't really matter whether Amazon has the biggest share of the market or simply a very big one. Because adding epub capability won't cause them to sell more books to Kindle owners. It might cause them to sell more Kindles - but that's only a good thing if Kindles have a decent profit margin on them - and we already know they are priced virtually at cost in order to promote sales of books.

And in theory there's nothing to stop them selling epubs alongside Mobi/KF8s for other devices. So if they wanted part of the epub market they could go for it. (I suppose it may be this is seen as anti-competitive but I personally can't see it's any more anti-competitive than having a walled garden in the first place, but I don't know the law well enough to say for sure.)

[EowynCarter]

Originally Posted by latepaul

. Because adding epub capability won't cause them to sell more books to Kindle owners.

As a non-kindle owner, i woudn't mind buying books from amazon. Also, I would be less reluctant to get a kindle if I could read my current books with it.
I have no problem with amazon, I just had too many books when they finally decided to get serious on the french market.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by mohadib

Yep. Ebook formatting is a problem that baffles me. I just completed a new book and the conversion process with the conversion formatter(s) was tedious, harrowing, and at times...frustrating. It took a few months (and not a few dollars) just to get the conversions to look professional. Although the way my book is formatted did pose some difficulties, why on earth in today's technological world do these limitations exist? I will say that the final ebook formatter I worked with did a great job and was exceedingly patient. I and my editors spent a LOT of time formatting my manuscript but then had to make concessions in keeping it looking the same way in an e-reader due to the limitations of the conversion processes (MOBI and EPUB). After a considerable amount of code strips and revisions, we got them looking good but sheesh...the horror of it all!

Please don't cripple the ePub because of the Mobi. If you made concessions in the ePub because of the limitations of Mobi, please undo them. KF8 can also use these more advanced features. It's just Mobi that's limited and if you limit more advanced formats because of less advanced formats, you are doing your readers a huge disservice.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Do a Google search for "Amazon ebook market share".

And you won't get a complete picture. Also, these analysts are just guessing. Plus, they ignore most of the world. So the numbers they come out with are meaningless.