Screwed by Tor again... - Page 9

igorsk · 08-21-2008, 07:15 PM

Well, finally we have some solid info.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torie

Patrick had lunch with Jim Minz, Baen's senior editor, just last week. We really do hope to have this sorted out in the next few months. No promises, of course, but all the legal stuff is behind us and it's just a few technical issues on Baen's part that are getting in the way.

The books will absolutely be free of DRM. As for multiple formats, I really don't know at this point. And we sure hope they'll be priced reasonably!

Taylor514ce · 08-22-2008, 08:51 AM

It's interesting to me to see that some of the "technical issues" might be infrastructure for converting books to various formats. Now folks, this is a legitimate questions, not snark: isn't that TOR's job? Why does Baen need to do this?

I'm wondering what an e-book production workflow should be. I've worked 20 years in print production, so I understand proofing, pre-flight, pre-press, etc. But I assumed that e-books would be produced by the publisher, not the retailer.

slayda · 08-22-2008, 09:00 AM

Perhaps the "technical" difficulties are that Tor does not have the technical abilities to convert them. Maybe they should check out MR's Wiki pages.

Taylor514ce · 08-22-2008, 09:09 AM

If Baen has to do the conversion to various formats, what are they converting FROM? I would guess, in most cases, Adobe InDesign and/or MS-WORD. Man, we need an e-book standard. Otherwise, I'm afraid we'll get more, "Well Amazaon's got the lock, and converting to 3-4 different formats is a pain, so we'll just make Kindle Editions".

At least TOR has said the books will be DRM free, so perhaps we're finally seeing the beginning of the end of DRM. One battle at a time.

zelda_pinwheel · 08-22-2008, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slayda

Perhaps the "technical" difficulties are that Tor does not have the technical abilities to convert them. Maybe they should check out MR's Wiki pages.

zelda_pinwheel · 08-22-2008, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taylor514ce

If Baen has to do the conversion to various formats, what are they converting FROM? I would guess, in most cases, Adobe InDesign and/or MS-WORD. Man, we need an e-book standard. Otherwise, I'm afraid we'll get more, "Well Amazaon's got the lock, and converting to 3-4 different formats is a pain, so we'll just make Kindle Editions".

At least TOR as said the books will be DRM free, so perhaps we're finally seeing the beginning of the end of DRM. One battle at a time.

EPUB !! we need EPUB !!! go EPUB !!! everybody make EPUB !!!!!! EPUB ftw !!!

-zelda (not at all passionate about standard formats, as you can see.)

JSWolf · 08-22-2008, 09:33 AM

Are we screwed by TOR if TOR allows it's authors to make an exclusive eBook deal with Amazon?

GeoffC · 08-22-2008, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Are we screwed by TOR if TOR allows it's authors to make an exclusive eBook deal with Amazon?

Amazon are, admittedly a very large company, but surely an exclusivity deal would be prone to challenge; certainly I would have thought by the European Court if no-where else. On a charge of monopoly...?

(an viewpoint ignorant of the finer rule of law; I admit)

llasram · 08-22-2008, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taylor514ce

If Baen has to do the conversion to various formats, what are they converting FROM? I would guess, in most cases, Adobe InDesign and/or MS-WORD. Man, we need an e-book standard.

Actually, there is one many publishers use in some fashion -- OEBPS 1.2. You know the HTML versions of the freebies Tor was handing out? Those were OEBPS 1.2 books with the main HTML file re-named (making the OPF metadata incorrect) and the CSS made all wacky (to optimize for on-screen vs. on-page/device reading). Most commercial e-book conversion tools accept OEPBS 1.x as an input format or even their preferred/primary input format.

So I have some difficulty seeing what the technical difficulties would be for them on that end of things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

EPUB !! we need EPUB !!! go EPUB !!! everybody make EPUB !!!!!! EPUB ftw !!!

Take OEBPS 1.x, split it into 2 standards, update to 2.0 (while keeping the content mostly the same), and add a third standard (OCF, for how you do the ZIP file containing) -- and you get EPUB! Hooray!

llasram · 08-22-2008, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Are we screwed by TOR if TOR allows it's authors to make an exclusive eBook deal with Amazon?

My understanding from that Publisher's Weekly article is that by hook or by crook, Goodkind's contracts with Tor explicitly didn't cover e-book rights. Tor didn't "let him" make a deal -- he shopped around and sold the rights to Rosetta. After that.... Well, hopefully someone at Rosetta will respond to those e-mails and let us know what's going on.

JSWolf · 08-22-2008, 09:41 AM

Don't forget that to do a proper Mobile ePub compatible book, you do need to split the chapters into seperate files.

JSWolf · 08-22-2008, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by llasram

My understanding from that Publisher's Weekly article is that by hook or by crook, Goodkind's contracts with Tor explicitly didn't cover e-book rights. Tor didn't "let him" make a deal -- he shopped around and sold the rights to Rosetta. After that.... Well, hopefully someone at Rosetta will respond to those e-mails and let us know what's going on.

Ok, then TOR is not at fault here. That's a relief. Anyway, would this be considered a monopoly which is illegal in the USA? It basically ties the content to the Kindle with no chance for it being available on other devices.

slayda · 08-22-2008, 09:57 AM

You know, if the Baen/Tor consortium would just post the ebooks in some easy format (e.g. HTML or RTF) we could at least buy them and convert them ourselves. Later they could add other formats as they became available.

I would rather this than wait until the have "all" formats ready at once.

Patricia · 08-22-2008, 09:58 AM

If Tor offered me some money then I'd convert them.

GeoffC · 08-22-2008, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patricia

If Tor offered me some money then I'd convert them.

pffftt....interesting sideline....££$$$$ mmmmm....

08-22-2008, 09:09 AM	#124
Taylor514ce Actively passive. Posts: 2,042 Karma: 478376 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: US Device: Sony PRS-505/LC	If Baen has to do the conversion to various formats, what are they converting FROM? I would guess, in most cases, Adobe InDesign and/or MS-WORD. Man, we need an e-book standard. Otherwise, I'm afraid we'll get more, "Well Amazaon's got the lock, and converting to 3-4 different formats is a pain, so we'll just make Kindle Editions". At least TOR has said the books will be DRM free, so perhaps we're finally seeing the beginning of the end of DRM. One battle at a time. Last edited by Taylor514ce; 08-22-2008 at 09:59 AM.

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08-22-2008, 08:51 AM	#122
Taylor514ce Actively passive. Posts: 2,042 Karma: 478376 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: US Device: Sony PRS-505/LC	It's interesting to me to see that some of the "technical issues" might be infrastructure for converting books to various formats. Now folks, this is a legitimate questions, not snark: isn't that TOR's job? Why does Baen need to do this? I'm wondering what an e-book production workflow should be. I've worked 20 years in print production, so I understand proofing, pre-flight, pre-press, etc. But I assumed that e-books would be produced by the publisher, not the retailer.

08-22-2008, 09:00 AM	#123
slayda Retired & reading more! Posts: 2,764 Karma: 1884247 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: North Alabama, USA Device: Kindle 1, iPad Air 2, iPhone 6S+, Kobo Aura One	Perhaps the "technical" difficulties are that Tor does not have the technical abilities to convert them. Maybe they should check out MR's Wiki pages.

08-22-2008, 09:33 AM	#127
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 79,796 Karma: 146391129 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	Are we screwed by TOR if TOR allows it's authors to make an exclusive eBook deal with Amazon?

08-22-2008, 09:41 AM	#131
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 79,796 Karma: 146391129 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	Don't forget that to do a proper Mobile ePub compatible book, you do need to split the chapters into seperate files.

08-22-2008, 09:57 AM	#133
slayda Retired & reading more! Posts: 2,764 Karma: 1884247 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: North Alabama, USA Device: Kindle 1, iPad Air 2, iPhone 6S+, Kobo Aura One	You know, if the Baen/Tor consortium would just post the ebooks in some easy format (e.g. HTML or RTF) we could at least buy them and convert them ourselves. Later they could add other formats as they became available. I would rather this than wait until the have "all" formats ready at once.

08-22-2008, 09:58 AM	#134
Patricia Reader Posts: 11,504 Karma: 8720163 Join Date: May 2007 Location: South Wales, UK Device: Sony PRS-500, PRS-505, Asus EEEpc 4G	If Tor offered me some money then I'd convert them.