Old-style numerals/small caps support?

Doitsu · 12-19-2012, 06:27 AM

I embedded a subset font* with small caps and old style numerals in an ePub, which displayed fine in Sigil and ADE, but I when compiled it with the latest version of KindleGen, the embedded font seems to be ignored on my K3. (Turning Publisher Fonts on/off had no effect either.)

Is this yet another limitation of the KF8 firmware of my K3 or do eInk Kindles generally not support embedded fonts that replace small caps and/or (old-style) numerals?

[*] a subset font of AnPolt-Regular created with Font Squirrel. (Other subset fonts didn't work either.)

pdurrant · 12-19-2012, 07:41 AM

Kindle Previewer shows the Paperwhite displaying the fonts correctly. Has your Kindle Keyboard actually updated to the KF8 firmware?

I note that your screen shot from Adobe Digital Editions shows that they're still not supporting the small-caps attribute, which is in the ePub 2.0 spec. Bad Adobe!

Doitsu · 12-19-2012, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Kindle Previewer shows the Paperwhite displaying the fonts correctly.

Unfortunately, KP is not always 100% accurate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Kindle Previewer shows the Paperwhite displaying the fonts correctly. Has your Kindle Keyboard actually updated to the KF8 firmware?

Yes it has and other embedded fonts, for example, dingbats that cover the Latin 1 range, definitely work on my K3.

William Ockham · 12-19-2012, 02:35 PM

Oops, it doesn't work. I misread your original email...

This file worked well on my Kindle Keyboard 3G (see the attached screenshot).

Your test file even came up with publisher fonts "on", which I haven't been able to do reliably.

How did you get the file on to your Kindle?

William Ockham · 12-19-2012, 04:24 PM

Ok, this one has me stumped. I deconstructed and recompiled the epub, then regenerated the .mobi file several times.

The stylesheet is done correctly. The font file is there. It has all the glyphs needed. I even changed the embedding rights to 0 (all) just to make sure that wasn't the issue (I don't think the Kindle pays attention to the font licensing bits in a font file, but I wanted to be sure).

The stylesheet is being processed (because the small caps attribute is actually working, even if the font isn't). I wonder if there is something about the process used for subsetting that is making the Kindle software reject the font. I've used subsetted fonts before and they've worked.

dgatwood · 12-20-2012, 12:00 PM

You may be making it mad by specifying a font variant with a font that does not contain an actual smallcaps OpenType feature. Try taking that out of the CSS and just specify the font itself. Worth a shot, anyway.

Hitch · 12-27-2012, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgatwood

You may be making it mad by specifying a font variant with a font that does not contain an actual smallcaps OpenType feature. Try taking that out of the CSS and just specify the font itself. Worth a shot, anyway.

Please, how did you send the MOBI to your Kindle, precisely? The sideloading--exactly how did you do it?

Hitch

dgatwood · 12-29-2012, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgatwood

You may be making it mad by specifying a font variant with a font that does not contain an actual smallcaps OpenType feature. Try taking that out of the CSS and just specify the font itself. Worth a shot, anyway.

Or specify font-variant: small-caps; in the @font declaration if you aren't already.

dgatwood · 12-29-2012, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitch

Please, how did you send the MOBI to your Kindle, precisely? The sideloading--exactly how did you do it?

Hitch

For most Kindles, you just plug it into a computer and drag the file into the correct directory, e.g.

http://www.iuniverse.com/FAQs/Sidelo...ndle-Fire.aspx

http://dearauthor.com/ebooks/dear-ja...to-the-kindle/

Or are you saying that some methods result in misbehavior?

Hitch · 12-29-2012, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgatwood

For most Kindles, you just plug it into a computer and drag the file into the correct directory, e.g.

http://www.iuniverse.com/FAQs/Sidelo...ndle-Fire.aspx

http://dearauthor.com/ebooks/dear-ja...to-the-kindle/

Or are you saying that some methods result in misbehavior?

I'm saying that "sideloading" a K8 file via emailing it to your Kindle address, or by using the "so-called" wifi transfer option available in the Explorer Window (send by wifi to Kindle), which is actually the emailing option, converts a K8 book using the Document Service, which produces a K7 book. Thus, if you had styling in CSS, you'd get an old-style MOBI, not a new-style MOBI.

This means that any font you embedded, won't be. Ergo, no font-variant, as there is no font.

That's why I was asking.

Hitch

Doitsu · 12-31-2012, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgatwood

You may be making it mad by specifying a font variant with a font that does not contain an actual smallcaps OpenType feature. Try taking that out of the CSS and just specify the font itself. Worth a shot, anyway.

I had another look at the file and found out that you were absolutely right on the money. Subsetting the font with FontSquirrel must have removed the smallcaps OpenType feature, essentially converting it to regular font with small caps and old style numerals glyphs.

After removing font-variant: small-caps; from the font declaration and the small caps style everything worked as it should.

12-19-2012, 02:35 PM	#4
William Ockham Enthusiast Posts: 36 Karma: 8164 Join Date: Jul 2012 Device: Kindle Keyboard	It works on my machine... Oops, it doesn't work. I misread your original email... This file worked well on my Kindle Keyboard 3G (see the attached screenshot). Your test file even came up with publisher fonts "on", which I haven't been able to do reliably. How did you get the file on to your Kindle? Attached Thumbnails

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12-19-2012, 07:41 AM	#2
pdurrant The Grand Mouse 高貴的老鼠 Posts: 73,699 Karma: 315126578 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Norfolk, England Device: Kindle Oasis	Kindle Previewer shows the Paperwhite displaying the fonts correctly. Has your Kindle Keyboard actually updated to the KF8 firmware? I note that your screen shot from Adobe Digital Editions shows that they're still not supporting the small-caps attribute, which is in the ePub 2.0 spec. Bad Adobe!

12-19-2012, 04:24 PM	#5
William Ockham Enthusiast Posts: 36 Karma: 8164 Join Date: Jul 2012 Device: Kindle Keyboard	Ok, this one has me stumped. I deconstructed and recompiled the epub, then regenerated the .mobi file several times. The stylesheet is done correctly. The font file is there. It has all the glyphs needed. I even changed the embedding rights to 0 (all) just to make sure that wasn't the issue (I don't think the Kindle pays attention to the font licensing bits in a font file, but I wanted to be sure). The stylesheet is being processed (because the small caps attribute is actually working, even if the font isn't). I wonder if there is something about the process used for subsetting that is making the Kindle software reject the font. I've used subsetted fonts before and they've worked.

12-20-2012, 12:00 PM	#6
dgatwood Curmudgeon Posts: 629 Karma: 1623086 Join Date: Jan 2012 Device: iPad, iPhone, Nook Simple Touch	You may be making it mad by specifying a font variant with a font that does not contain an actual smallcaps OpenType feature. Try taking that out of the CSS and just specify the font itself. Worth a shot, anyway.