Is ebook piracy on the rise?

[axel77]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Not so painful, eh?

No, I'm still strictly against product placement in books. Okay it works with fiction that plays in the "now-time". But what about a story that plays in the age of romans? How do you place products there? So what happens nobody is going to write that kind of stories anymore. And then we already have it, we have advertisment taking seriously influence on the content, going as far to determine what is going to be written and what isn't.

The stuff gets even more troublesome when doing non-fiction. Say I write a book about the life of may beetles? Do I have to mention a hummer there too? And yet a step worser, say I write a book about the history of cars. When making money from product placement, doesn't it make my effort look really hypocritical?

[axel77]

Originally Posted by Format C:

And what's the difference between "to have the money" and "to be right"?

IMHO A lot, but there is hardly a difference to "have the money" and "to get judged in favor".

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Olympus

I guestimate that for each payed shareware version 100 versions are not payed for - could somebody explain to me why this seems to be OK for software but not for e-books

Except for extreme cases, the majority of those shareware products do not make the creator a significant profit... certainly not enough to live off of. Simply put, when given the choice to pay, most people won't, and very little money is made.

The closest examples the publishing world has to shareware marketing are authors like Doctorrow and Stross, giving their e-books away in order to entice you to buy a printed book. As I said before, that's fine... if you have a printed book to sell (or whatever other product you're really pushing), and you already have a name and presence in the market. For those authors who don't have those things, the method is of little use to them.

Originally Posted by axel77

No, I'm still strictly against product placement in books. Okay it works with fiction that plays in the "now-time". But what about a story that plays in the age of romans? How do you place products there? So what happens nobody is going to write that kind of stories anymore. And then we already have it, we have advertisment taking seriously influence on the content, going as far to determine what is going to be written and what isn't.

The stuff gets even more troublesome when doing non-fiction. Say I write a book about the life of may beetles? Do I have to mention a hummer there too? And yet a step worser, say I write a book about the history of cars. When making money from product placement, doesn't it make my effort look really hypocritical?

Movies and TV shows have the same problem... no, you won't be seeing any Hummer placement in a Star Wars movie. But that doesn't mean those movies don't get made. They have to arrange their sponsorships differently (for instance, fast-food shops offering Star Wars action figures. "Get the whole set--while quantities last!").

That's where the creating ideas need to flow, starting with simple ads at the beginning, end, or at natural breaks within, a book, or at the web site when you buy it... and running from there.

As to looking hypocritical... that depends on what you do, and will be looked at differently by every consumer. Ultimately, you should do what feels comfortable to you.

[axel77]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Movies and TV shows have the same problem... no, you won't be seeing any Hummer placement in a Star Wars movie. But that doesn't mean those movies don't get made. They have to arrange their sponsorships differently (for instance, fast-food shops offering Star Wars action figures. "Get the whole set--while quantities last!").

That's where the creating ideas need to flow, starting with simple ads at the beginning, end, or at natural breaks within, a book, or at the web site when you buy it... and running from there.

As to looking hypocritical... that depends on what you do, and will be looked at differently by every consumer. Ultimately, you should do what feels comfortable to you.

Well movies get mainly paid bywell cinema tickets. While merchandising works well for big movies and might work well the super-best-sellers like Harry Potter, I don't see any normal book being able to make any money of merchandising. It only pays of if you get in the 100.000s of prints. Not if you are planning to sell say 5000 copies of the book alone. No merchandising plan possible.

And well TV-shows, they usually just get interrupted for ads....

And yes hypcirtical does depend on what you do, and if you favor mercedes in your car book because you get "sponsored" by mercedes, you will be viewed as hypocritical. If you don't favor mercedes, mercedes will say: What do I pay you for, if it doesn't change the content at all??

[Format C:]

Originally Posted by nekokami

I've compiled a list of points of view expressed in this (and other) threads. Note that many of these are mutually exclusive-- this isn't meant to be a consensus, but an inventory of opinions expressed. I'm sure I missed some. Anyone want to chime in?

SNIP

In two lines:

- I want your money, and I morally/legally deserve it.
- I want to keep my money, and I morally/legally deserve it.

That's it.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by axel77

I don't see any normal book being able to make any money of merchandising. It only pays of if you get in the 100.000s of prints.

Think about it: What has a better chance of being seen by over 100,000 people? A free e-book, or a "written by nobody" printed book? Getting the eyeballs is exactly what advertisers want, and if you can demonstrate that your free e-book was just downloaded by 100,000 people, some advertisers would line up for that kind of exposure.

Originally Posted by axel77

And well TV-shows, they usually just get interrupted for ads....

It's usually considered okay by viewers, if it happens at a story's natural breaks... and if the number of commercials in one break isn't too significant. These days, stations are really pushing the envelope. But they are reducing that "between break" time by placing commercials onscreen (at the bottom) during the show. Not that I like this... but it does show some effort in creative commercial use...

Originally Posted by axel77

And yes hypcirtical does depend on what you do, and if you favor mercedes in your car book because you get "sponsored" by mercedes, you will be viewed as hypocritical. If you don't favor mercedes, mercedes will say: What do I pay you for, if it doesn't change the content at all??

Obviously, if you're writing a car book, and not a Mercedes book, you are going to tell any car dealer that wants to advertise that you will not be altering the content of your CAR BOOK... but that they can buy advertising space in it, or tie it to promotional material. Or they can pay extra to have their car on the front or back cover. Or they can pay you to write a Mercedes book... their choice. If they are not happy... Let someone who wants to be tied to nice cars, like Napa Valley Winery, sponsor it.

Product placement and sponsoring has to be selective, just as it is in movies and TV (you won't see Spiderman IV sponsored by the tobacco industry, for example). Choose your sponsor, and your marketing method, according to the project. Fortunately, there are multiple choices for most projects, and many are tried and true and easy to pick. And there's no reason you can't get more inventive from there.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Format C:

- I want your money, and I morally/legally deserve it.
- I want to keep my money, and I morally/legally deserve it.

How about this clarification:

- I want your money for my product that you took, and I morally/legally deserve it.
- I want to keep my money for your product that I took, and I morally/legally deserve it.

Now what do you have?

[Format C:]

Originally Posted by axel77

I think you are hitting the head on a nail here.

The important question is always to your code of conduct, what would happen, if everybody would do it? (this boils down to Kants Imperative)

What would happen if nobody would buy any books, but all download it for free?

Mecenatism.
And people who writes because they have something to say, not just to be a millionaire.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by Olympus

I guestimate that for each payed shareware version 100 versions are not payed for - could somebody explain to me why this seems to be OK for software but not for e-books

There is no difference. Most shareware's license states that if you continue to use the software past it's original 30 days (or whatever) you MUST pay for it or discontinue it's use.

Some shareware allows use for certain functions without paying for it. For example, WinZip doesn't require you to buy it if you are only using it to Unzip files (used to be this way anyhow). If you create Zips then you must pay for it. Also, paying for it adds the features of being able to create self-extracting zips. You see their motivation here... if people that bought Zip to create zips are sending files to others that couldn't unzip them then the software was useless.

There also is some "shareware" more correctly "freeware" in which the author says use this as you like, and if you like it make a donation... but that is not required. In this case it is much different from books because the author has made the decision to give it away. This is also the case with ebooks from Cory Doctorow which are under the creative commons license.

So, it is not the "form" of the digital item that decides this issue... it is the licenses or copywrite permissions you are given (or not given).

BOb

[axel77]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Think about it: What has a better chance of being seen by over 100,000 people? A free e-book, or a "written by nobody" printed book? Getting the eyeballs is exactly what advertisers want, and if you can demonstrate that your free e-book was just downloaded by 100,000 people, some advertisers would line up for that kind of exposure.

Well IMHO in grand total there won't be much more read, if everything was free. And as said, merchandising only works if you get some sort of hype. By the 1000ooo... books that appear each year, you cannot have for each one of these plastic figures at McDonalds.

It's usually considered okay by viewers, if it happens at a story's natural breaks... and if the number of commercials in one break isn't too significant. These days, stations are really pushing the envelope. But they are reducing that "between break" time by placing commercials onscreen (at the bottom) during the show. Not that I like this... but it does show some effort in creative commercial use...

In my country (austria/europe) luckly not, seems yet to be an U.S. only invention, or? (They do make bottom ads for other movies coming after this one or so... but not yet ever seen any for a product).

Obviously, if you're writing a car book, and not a Mercedes book, you are going to tell any car dealer that wants to advertise that you will not be altering the content of your CAR BOOK... but that they can buy advertising space in it, or tie it to promotional material. Or they can pay extra to have their car on the front or back cover. Or they can pay you to write a Mercedes book... their choice. If they are not happy... Let someone who wants to be tied to nice cars, like Napa Valley Winery, sponsor it.

except the car on front/back cover, this are all other models than product placement.

Product placement and sponsoring has to be selective, just as it is in movies and TV (you won't see Spiderman IV sponsored by the tobacco industry, for example). Choose your sponsor, and your marketing method, according to the project. Fortunately, there are multiple choices for most projects, and many are tried and true and easy to pick. And there's no reason you can't get more inventive from there.

So how am I gonna do my romans narrative in your model?

[Format C:]

Originally Posted by axel77

How about the copyright lasts for 100.000 copies? Not that I would have really thought that suggestion deeply through, but it would be a pretty new approach, wouldn't it?

I don't think so.
Everybody wants to be the 100.001st reader.
So when do you plan to sell the first 100.000?

[axel77]

Originally Posted by Format C:

I don't think so.
Everybody wants to be the 100.001st reader.
So when do you plan to sell the first 100.000?

People go to the cinema altough they know they can watch the movie for free in 3 years on TV.

[Format C:]

Originally Posted by HarryT

With all due respect, you cannot use the extension of copyright terms by Disney et al (which we all agree is abusive) as an excuse to justify illegal copying of current books (which would be in copyright in ANY country, since the author is still alive). It is just plain WRONG to read a book without paying the author, who's worked damned hard to write that book. Not just illegal but plain WRONG. Everyone deserves to be paid for their work if that work is used by someone.

In your opinion is there a threshold or a limit above which is just plain wrong to demand more money?
How much is it?

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Format C:

Mecenatism.
And people who writes because they have something to say, not just to be a millionaire.

A lot of people write who feel they have something to say.

Not all of them are good at it.

That's why professional writers are professional writers: They know how to write well and entertain readers better than the average Joe writing about his fascinating job at Burger Benny's.

And it's those professional writers that will be first to jump ship when they can't get paid to their satisfaction... leaving you with a lot of books about Burger Benny's (and me turning to movies for entertainment).

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by axel77

So how am I gonna do my romans narrative in your model?

Sell sponsoring... an ad on the website where the book is bought, and inside the front or back cover of the book. For you, product placement is out. Instead, see if the sponsor wants to sell plastic toy spears and shields with your book's name on it, in their local toy stores.