Is ebook piracy on the rise?

[stepanok]

I think it would be very very interesting if each and everyone of us arguing here would post ( in all honesty )the titles that he or she has on his ereader at the moment

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by jakewastaken

Agreed. I'm glad we were able to cut back on the amount of venom escalating in this thread. Let's just be happy that we're both still reading. I mean so many people have already given up or never even given texts the chance. Surely those of us who remain literate can band together as brothers in arms against the death of the almighty book! We have differently tuned moral compasses, but our end goals are quite similar. Viva la libra!

Cheers!

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by stepanok

I think it would be very very interesting if each and everyone of us arguing here would post ( in all honesty )the titles that he or she has on his ereader at the moment

You want all 180 plus titles??

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Obviously there are differences between e-books and TV shows, most notably in the communications mediums involved. But there are also enough similarities to provide answers to most of the questions of access, distribution, payment, theft, piracy, etc, that we've discussed here. I think we should give those similarities a serious look, with an idea of finding the true common ground to evaluate this issue.

To me, it's the same swamp, different trees. The Betamax decision affirmed the right to record and timeshift broadcast materials. Ok, if something is broadcast, and everybody has the right to make a recording of it, do I break the law by handing somebody else a copy of a broadcast? If I remembered to do it, and the other person forgot, why is passing it along illegal? What rights were waived by broadcasting copyright material in the first place? Some obviously, because of the Betamax decision.

I could go on at length, but I just want to point out that broadcast world doesn't have all the answers either.

[stepanok]

what i have is:

American Phyco/Bret Easton Ellis (pirated)
The Beetle/Richard Marsh ( gutenberg)
A Canticle for Leibowitzt/Walter M Miller (pirated)
The Comlete Celebrated Crimes/Dumas (gutenberg)
Confessions of A Justified Sinner/ Hogg (gutenberg)
The DEvil in the White City/Erik Larson (pirated)
Ex Libris/Ross KIng ( pirated)
The Five Jars/M R James (gutenberg)
The Space Machine/Cristopher Priest ( pirated)

Thats it!

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by nekokami

I've compiled a list of points of view expressed in this (and other) threads. Note that many of these are mutually exclusive-- this isn't meant to be a consensus, but an inventory of opinions expressed. I'm sure I missed some. Anyone want to chime in?

Here's some to add:

- Ultimately, all information will be free.

- E-books do not exist in a physical sense, and therefore cannot be "taken" from anybody.

- E-books should be considered more similar to television shows than physical products. (This is my opinion)

[stepanok]

The titles one has in order to read them very soon

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Here's some to add:

- Ultimately, all information will be free.

- E-books do not exist in a physical sense, and therefore cannot be "taken" from anybody.
- E-books should be considered more similar to television shows than physical products. (This is my opinion)

explain to me the difference between a paper version and an e-book version. Same content. The author gets royalties from the paper and legal e-book version. Not so from the illegal download. So in that respect, something is being taken....

[jakewastaken]

Originally Posted by stepanok

what i have is:

STICKY SITUATION

Thats it!

I'm not sure this is a good idea on such an open board. Saying you pirate and listing your offenses directly are totally different concepts. You'll probably be fine, but be careful!

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

To me, it's the same swamp, different trees. The Betamax decision affirmed the right to record and timeshift broadcast materials. Ok, if something is broadcast, and everybody has the right to make a recording of it, do I break the law by handing somebody else a copy of a broadcast? If I remembered to do it, and the other person forgot, why is passing it along illegal? What rights were waived by broadcasting copyright material in the first place? Some obviously, because of the Betamax decision.

I could go on at length, but I just want to point out that broadcast world doesn't have all the answers either.

Yes, broadcast laws take some liberties, too. In the case you mentioned, your providing a copy of a program to someone else is illegal, strictly speaking... however, the authorities do not consider one transaction to be worth pursuing, so they let it go (like police allowing a driver to go 2 miles above the speed limit). When volume and significant sales dollars are involved, however, they will pursue and prosecute to the full extent of the law, and there is assuredly a legally-adopted guide level at which they consider appropriate to pursue and prosecute.

This is essentially the strategy the RIAA is using to pursue music swappers. (Not making a judgment, I'm just saying.)

But the fact is that broadcast has still worked out a lot of the problems we still debate here... adopting their guidelines would at least free us up to concentrate on the stickier issues.

[jakewastaken]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

explain to me the difference between a paper version and an e-book version. Same content. The author gets royalties from the paper and legal e-book version. Not so from the illegal download. So in that respect, something is being taken....

That point is not in respect to monetary gains and losses to the authors, but rather the idea that if you actually take a physical item, then you've removed it, thus depriving someone else of that same physical item. You both can't have it at the same time. An e-book is a clone. Distributing it or taking it from someplace leaves the source intact.

Edit: It might make more sense to you if you consider the fact that pirated ebooks have more in common with the used book market than new books. No money goes to the author in either case. It's not about money, its about distribution and lending and reselling (or giving away for free). If you steal a used book then you've deprived someone else of that book. If you download a digital book, however, than some other guy can still come along and get that book too.

[Patricia]

Originally Posted by stepanok

I think it would be very very interesting if each and everyone of us arguing here would post ( in all honesty )the titles that he or she has on his ereader at the moment

I've got one book from the Sony store and 30 from this site. I converted and uploaded 24 of them. The others were uploaded by RWood and HarryT.

It is possible for non-tangible things to be stolen. I'm thinking of an acquaintance whose electricity supply was stolen by a tenant with a long extension lead, another who couldn't access her broadband because she hadn't set up a decent firewall and the neighbours were using it all, , and a case where some lecture notes that I allowed someone to copy were recycled for many years in another institution. I had given a guest lecture. They never invited me back (so saved themselves the visiting lecturer fees), but just used my notes for a decade afterwards. So I did lose out financially.

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by jakewastaken

That point is not in respect to monetary gains and losses to the authors, but rather the idea that if you actually take a physical item, then you've removed it, thus depriving someone else of that same physical item. You both can't have it at the same time. An e-book is a clone. Distributing it or taking it from someplace leaves the source intact.

Edit: It might make more sense to you if you consider the fact that pirated ebooks have more in common with the used book market than new books. No money goes to the author in either case. It's not about money, its about distribution and lending and reselling (or giving away for free). If you steal a used book then you've deprived someone else of that book. If you download a digital book, however, than some other guy can still come along and get that book too.

so.........pirating is just buying a used book? Oh, wait, I PAID for that used book. Its legal! Now, the book my friend gave me? SHE paid for it. At one point, someone paid for all those used books. At one point, the author did get royalties. But in the case of illegal downloads? Not one dime.......okay, ready for your next shot...........

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Yes, broadcast laws take some liberties, too. In the case you mentioned, your providing a copy of a program to someone else is illegal, strictly speaking... however, the authorities do not consider one transaction to be worth pursuing, so they let it go (like police allowing a driver to go 2 miles above the speed limit). When volume and significant sales dollars are involved, however, they will pursue and prosecute to the full extent of the law, and there is assuredly a legally-adopted guide level at which they consider appropriate to pursue and prosecute.

This is essentially the strategy the RIAA is using to pursue music swappers. (Not making a judgment, I'm just saying.)

But the fact is that broadcast has still worked out a lot of the problems we still debate here... adopting their guidelines would at least free us up to concentrate on the stickier issues.

I think that broadcast TV has solved the revenue problem by being a advertisement driven model. They get the revenue from the advertisers upfront. The same for broadcast radio. All content royalties, even reruns, is paid for upfront, with no residuals after the broadcast. Books, movies, recorded music, computer software, et. al. don't follow that model, and use a residual royalty model, which is being slowly killed by technology...

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

I see e-books as being more akin to broadcasts of a television program: While not a tangible object, per se, it still represents a specific, copywritten and protected work, and those who access them are still limited by law to what they are allowed to do with them--for instance, I cannot tape an episode of "Lost," then charge people to come to a private venue and watch those episodes, nor to make multiple copies of that tape and give them away, even for free... those uses are, by U.S. definition, illegal.

I know if you hook up to the cable systems feed or use a box that gets premiums that you don't subscribe to the cable company says that this is "THEFT OF CABLE" service. There is no "tangible" property but I believe they have prosecuted people for this.

So, if you getting cable without paying for it is "theft" I don't see how getting an ebook you didn't pay for or copy following the rules it isn't "theft" too.

BOb