Is ebook piracy on the rise?

[Amalthia]

Originally Posted by slayda

On Fictionwise, if you purchase their "Multiformat" books, you can choose from several formats, redownload in formats other than your initial DL & I believe are DRM free.

but not all their books have that option.

[Amalthia]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

The question is whether the $2-$6 range you cite is feasible. Offhand, I suspect not.

I think it's entirely feasible, there are no shipping costs, books take up very little space/bandwidth on a website. I don't see why all the shipping and printing costs should be dumped on people reading electronic books, which is exactly what they are doing.

The reason I listed 2-6 dollars is because that would cover editor/author/artists costs and it's still an acceptable price range that most people are willing to pay for a book. Even poor college students can afford a ebook that costs 4 dollars.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

It hasn't been discussed in this thread, but it has been discussed elsewhere in threads related to the need for DRM.

The problem is that it's impossible to measure. Even if you know how many books get illegally downloaded (and how do you find out?), you haven't learned anything useful. What you need to know is how many electronic copies get downloaded, and read instead of buying a legitimate copy of the book, in paper or electronic format. If you know a verifiable of determining that, you've got a whole new lucrative career to get into.

The question has come up before in discussions of the use of DRM on ebooks, and whether DRM prevents piracy and whether it's necessary at all.

My own feeling is no and no. DRM schemes tend to be broken almost immediately, and people with the savvy to download an illegal copy will likely have the savvy to crack protected books

Agreed, most darknet copies are awful. I've seen them, wouldn't try to read them as is, and can't be bothered to do the work required to get them into any form I'd consider readable. I value my time too highly, and it's cheaper viewed that way to just buy the book.

I concur: it's not a threat.
______
Dennis

But, how many of those books on the darknet that get downloaded and read would never have been read had they not been download? If that is the case, that's not a loss. It's only a loss if someone is looking for a book on the darkent and finds it would have payed for otherwise.

[JSWolf]

Take a papberback at $7.99. How much would it cost if we removed the printing costs, the costs to ship, distributer costs, wearhousing costs, and any other costs other then the cost for the editors and authors? In otherwords, I want to strip the price down to it's lowest amount so the publisher and author still make the same amount on each copy sold. I want to know how much an eBook should really sell for. I don't feel hardcover pricing is valid in this case. I want to go froma $7.99 price point which is fair to start with.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

The question is whether the $2-$6 range you cite is feasible. Offhand, I suspect not.

I just purchase a pBook from Borders today for 25% off. The book was $7.99 and cost $5.99 without tax. So how much should the eBook be priced? Granted I did get a coupon for 25% off for being a Borders Rewards member.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by Amothea

The reason I listed 2-6 dollars is because that would cover editor/author/artists costs and it's still an acceptable price range that most people are willing to pay for a book. Even poor college students can afford a ebook that costs 4 dollars.

What happened to the dealer's profit? What about the publisher who promotes the book? Doesn't it matter if the book only sells a few copies? Some specialized text books that students can only pay 4 dollars for will never be produced at that price. Too many hours to write, too few copies sold at 4 dollars.

Dale

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

What happened to the dealer's profit? What about the publisher who promotes the book? Doesn't it matter if the book only sells a few copies? Some specialized text books that students can only pay 4 dollars for will never be produced at that price. Too many hours to write, too few copies sold at 4 dollars.

Dale

Let's agree that you are correct about text books. But let's move onto your average paperback book at $7.99. Take out all the costs involved with having it as a pBook and add in all the costs involved with it being an eBook and you get a price less then $7.99. In fact, I bet less then $6.

[Xenophon]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

The question is whether the $2-$6 range you cite is feasible. Offhand, I suspect not.

Consider what happens when a book is bought for publication. An editor reads the manuscript, and decides it's a book her house can sell. She negotiates with the author or author's agent over the contract, and offers an advance against royalties for the book rights. How big the advance will be will be determined by how many copies of the book the publisher thinks it can sell. A book perceived as a potential best seller will get a much better deal than a first novel from a new writer.

Once a deal is struck and a manuscript is accepted, the manuscript must be line edited by the editor, who will issue a note requesting revisions designed to improve the book. An Art Director must design a cover and commision art for it, and a book designer must create the typography and interior layout specifications. The revised manuscript must be copy edited and proofread, and then marked up and typeset and put into a form that can be handed to a printer to make plates and print the book.

We have the advance paid for the book, the fee paid for the cover art, plus the time of the editor who acquired and edited it,the lawyer who worked on the contract, the Art Director and Book Designer, the copy editor, the proofreader, and the DTP person who created the files for the printer, and we have an allocated share of the overhead of the publisher, covering things like office space rental, utilities and phone service.

And all of this is before the book is actually printed, bound, warehoused, or distributed.

[[SNIP]]
______
Dennis

Dennis:

We have an existence proof, in the form of Baen. As you well know, they sell their eBooks in exactly that $2-6 price-range that you doubt is feasible*. And the ebooks make money -- even after being charged their per-copy share of all the costs and overhead associated with the book.

*The books are $6 on a single-copy basis, with prices dropping as low as $2 for books bought as part of a monthly bundle (at least in months that have larger-than-normal numbers of books).

Xenophon

[sassanik]

I think with the higher amount of ebooks that are available through legitimate outlets, that the number of pirated ones, which having gone up, is probably not that large of a percentage of what is overall available.

When given the chance to purchase, or simply download books for free through sites like Project Gutenburg, I think that the need for pirated books is small.

Availablity of ebooks I think in the long run will decress pirated ones. When you have them available through legitmate outlets, I think that people will be more willing to pay for them.

If you don't have a legitmate outlet, that people can buy through, then how can you complain when it is pirated? There is a market need and the companies were short sighted about it, they are beginning to realize their mistake.

Amy

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Let's agree that you are correct about text books. But let's move onto your average paperback book at $7.99. Take out all the costs involved with having it as a pBook and add in all the costs involved with it being an eBook and you get a price less then $7.99. In fact, I bet less then $6.

I suspect you're right in that it can be sold for $6 if the publishing and promotion costs are already done when it was a pbook. $4 is pushing the lower limit however (as specified by the originator), particularly if there are any pictures with an illustrator to take a cut in the profits and dealers to make any money.

Dale

[jakewastaken]

There are several anonymous pirated book trading communities out there dedicated to fast releases, request filling, ocring, proofreading and formatting out there. If all you're seeing is outdated, poorly formatted crap, you're NOT looking in the right direction. I'm gonna be honest here and admit that except for legally free books, every single book in my ebook collection is pirated and in decent to excellent quality. I have several hundred books and access to thousands more made on subjects and by authors other 20 something people enjoy. I don't want to lose karma or get banned from this board so I won't pimp out any links, but if you're seeing crap you're not trying hard.

It's not perfect, but its getting better every day for the pirating community. The pirate market still isn't hurting real world sales in any appreciable way of books, but there's certainly a freaking treasure trove of good stuff out there for free right now.

Buying the PRS-505 was one of the best decisions I ever made and pirating has contributed to that in the best possible way. It's just the world's most expensive library card

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by jakewastaken

There are several anonymous pirated book trading communities out there dedicated to fast releases, request filling, ocring, proofreading and formatting out there. If all you're seeing is outdated, poorly formatted crap, you're NOT looking in the right direction. I'm gonna be honest here and admit that except for legally free books, every single book in my ebook collection is pirated and in decent to excellent quality. I have several hundred books and access to thousands more made on subjects and by authors other 20 something people enjoy. I don't want to lose karma or get banned from this board so I won't pimp out any links, but if you're seeing crap you're not trying hard.

I assume that you enjoy reading, jake. Don't you think that authors deserve to be paid for their hard work, or do you imagine that these books just "appear" out of thin air? WHY don't you pay for the books that you read?

[jakewastaken]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I assume that you enjoy reading, jake. Don't you think that authors deserve to be paid for their hard work, or do you imagine that these books just "appear" out of thin air? WHY don't you pay for the books that you read?

I'm an college student, an English major to be exact. I'm probably going to be poor for a while. I don't claim to be moral about my pirating, I'm just being honest. I'm sure I'm in the minority of people who both pirate and have an a hardware reader. I also buy tons of books. My apartment is filled to the freaking brim with books. I just read 2-3 books a week. I don't strictly pirate by any means. The authors do deserve compensation, I'm just not acting very fairly and indeed only looking out for my own self interest. A dick move perhaps, but I really do enjoy this community and I hope I won't be outcast for my admission here.

[acidzebra]

I thought it was refreshingly honest - and I doubt Harry or anyone else here hasn't copied a song or movie or book or otherwise obtained and enjoyed content/data that strictly speaking he/they didn't have the rights to at least once in their lives.

That, or I am a bastard in a world of angels. It certainly doesn't appear that way.

Some pirated content (I'm keeping it general) I've consumed simply wasn't available in electronic format, other content was priced beyond what I thought reasonable or came with 'features' like DRM that I didn't deem acceptable.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by acidzebra

I thought it was refreshingly honest - and I doubt Harry or anyone else here hasn't copied a song or movie or book or otherwise obtained and enjoyed content/data that strictly speaking he/they didn't have the rights to at least once in their lives.

There's a bit of a difference between doing that and saying that you've NEVER bought a legal eBook, don't you think? As people who (supposedly) want to support eBooks, what sort of a signal does it send to publishers and authors if we don't show our support to them by buying the material that is legally available?