E-books released after paper books - thoughts?

[nexist]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

But I suspect the intended reader isn't puritanical: it's the reader's parents who will have hissy fits.

I would love to know what, exactly, they are afraid will happen if their innocent darling does read a sex scene in a book. (My guess is "ask questions Mom and Dad aren't comfortable answering.")

Well, to be honest, they would probably just giggle (the kids). Reverse puritanicalism is jsut as annoying....

Then again, I enjoyed the Exploited's "Sex & Violence" ... ;p

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by daffy4u

Good point! But even Buffy "got busy" eventually.

Yep. And paid for it. Thinking about it, that was pretty consistent through the series. None of the main characters who actually entered into a sexual relationship with another character had happy ends for the relationships.

There were all manner of moral homilies that used to be published where the underlying message was "Having sex outside of approved marriage is a Bad Thing, and those who do will be Punished for their sins!". You still see vestiges of it.

If the TV star had his own loft, was the character dating an under 18 year old girl in the book?

Haven't read the book, but I believe both were under 18. Relationships between two parties where one was over the age of consent and the other wasn't was probably also on the proscribed list.
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Dennis

[nekokami]

Generally on those occasions when I've known my kids were reading something I thought might have "mature content," I've talked with them briefly about how some of what they read might make them feel uncomfortable, and if so, to talk with me or someone else about it. I don't worry much about sex itself (both my kids know quite well where babies come from), but violence, particularly emotional violence, e.g. manipulation. As I've commented to my kids, there are a lot of different ideas out there about sex, and I'd feel better if they get used to what are (ok, in my opinion, anyway) healthy kinds of sexual behavior first. I suppose this is just another kind of prudishness, but hey, it's part of being a parent-- you have to try to figure out what's best for your kids to help them be able to grow up and take care of themselves as adults.

My younger daughter generally asks my advice before buying manga, for example. I had to define "yaoi" for her once-- she decided on her own not to buy that one. (Mostly because she doesn't much like romance of any sort.)

My older daughter is in a rebellious stage, which is too bad, because I do see her getting upset about some stuff she watches or reads, because it makes her uncomfortable. But after a certain point, kids get beyond being willing to ask for or take advice, and she's 17.

[Daithi]

She does "get busy" in the new book, but she is married and the author handles the initial scene with a lot of lead up but then leaves things up to the readers imaginations -- I don't want to give anything away so that is all I'm going to say.

I loved the first three books, and I was agonizing for the last book to findout how the series would end. The book may not be a literary masterpiece (far from it), but I really enjoyed the story. Several hours of being transported to another world for $10. I was very happy with the last book.

P.S. Since I had to wait 24 hours to get the ebook version, I did something I normally would never have done. I downloaded a copy of bittorrent and then downloaded a partial copy of the book. Someone scanned and uploaded the first 14 chapters of the book. Then at midnight the next day I purchased the full Kindle version. Had someone scanned the whole book I would have done the same thing (downloaded it but also bought it). I am sure there are people that disagree with my actions, but I can live with myself. I am also sure that there are people that would have downloaded the scanned book and not bought it. Just thought I would mention this observation -- for whatever it is worth.

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by Daithi

P.S. Since I had to wait 24 hours to get the ebook version, I did something I normally would never have done. I downloaded a copy of bittorrent and then downloaded a partial copy of the book. Someone scanned and uploaded the first 14 chapters of the book. Then at midnight the next day I purchased the full Kindle version. Had someone scanned the whole book I would have done the same thing (downloaded it but also bought it). I am sure there are people that disagree with my actions, but I can live with myself. I am also sure that there are people that would have downloaded the scanned book and not bought it. Just thought I would mention this observation -- for whatever it is worth.

and *that* is one of the key reasons it is completely idiotic for publishers to hold back the release of ebooks until *after* paper versions.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

and *that* is one of the key reasons it is completely idiotic for publishers to hold back the release of ebooks until *after* paper versions.

The intent seems to have been a level playing field, where everyone would get the book at the same time, whether paper or electronic format. There are fan sites with message boards which took the boards down for a while at the author's request, to avoid the possibility of early readers posting "spoilers" and ruining the book for others. There was even a special email address at the publisher where people could report such postings and the publisher would intervene to get them removed.

I was a bit boggled, and wondered what they thought they could do about the fact that some kids just read a lot faster than others, and would finish the book sooner and want to talk about it sooner.

Most forums I participate in have a developed etiquette of posting spoiler warnings when discussing something everyone on the list might not have seen or read yet, to give those who hadn't but planned to the opportunity to skip the message. I'd be a little startled if the forums for fans of Meyer's books didn't have that convention.
______
Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by nekokami

Generally on those occasions when I've known my kids were reading something I thought might have "mature content," I've talked with them briefly about how some of what they read might make them feel uncomfortable, and if so, to talk with me or someone else about it. I don't worry much about sex itself (both my kids know quite well where babies come from), but violence, particularly emotional violence, e.g. manipulation. As I've commented to my kids, there are a lot of different ideas out there about sex, and I'd feel better if they get used to what are (ok, in my opinion, anyway) healthy kinds of sexual behavior first. I suppose this is just another kind of prudishness, but hey, it's part of being a parent-- you have to try to figure out what's best for your kids to help them be able to grow up and take care of themselves as adults.

Applause.

I don't have kids, but my general feel is that attempts to censor what your kids see and things like "parental controls" are self-defeating. Sure, you can control what the kids have access to at home, but unless you "raise them in a barrel and feed them through the bung-hole", that is of limited utility. What do you do when Junior is visiting a friend who doesn't have such controls applied in his house?

I would want any kids I had to be comfortable coming to me about anything, including questionable on-line content.

Ultimately, kids don't do what you say: they imitate what they see you do, and your biggest job as a parent is simply setting an example in your own behavior of the way to deal with the world and with other people in it.

My younger daughter generally asks my advice before buying manga, for example. I had to define "yaoi" for her once-- she decided on her own not to buy that one. (Mostly because she doesn't much like romance of any sort.)

My older daughter is in a rebellious stage, which is too bad, because I do see her getting upset about some stuff she watches or reads, because it makes her uncomfortable. But after a certain point, kids get beyond being willing to ask for or take advice, and she's 17.

With luck, she's already absorbed the important lessons.

A former co-worker lives in the rural midwest. She was a single mom raising a 5 year old son, and involved in a developing relationship with a man. She once expressed concern, because she feared her kid might turn into a neo-Nazi when he got older. (The Aryan Nation was apparently a local force.) The only advice I could give was to move away from the town she lived in as soon as possible. At that point, he was five years old, and Mom was the most important thing in his life. When he got older, the opinions of his friends would attain far more importance. She needed to be somewhere where he could associate with a better class of people before things reached that point.
______
Dennis

[nekokami]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

With luck, she's already absorbed the important lessons.

Unfortunately, we didn't get her until she was about 12 (both our kids are adopted from China), so it's been rather hit-or-miss how much we've been able to provide in the way of positive examples. Orphanage life hadn't provided much of a moral code, and some of the foster families she'd been with didn't give her very good role models either. (Others were great.) That's part of older child adoption -- you have to respect that the kid had a life before coming to live with you, and you're not going to be able to just erase or ignore that part.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

The only advice I could give was to move away from the town she lived in as soon as possible. At that point, he was five years old, and Mom was the most important thing in his life. When he got older, the opinions of his friends would attain far more importance. She needed to be somewhere where he could associate with a better class of people before things reached that point.

That's a tough one. I'm not sure there's anywhere in the world to move to that wouldn't have some kind of threat like that-- just different flavors of the same. Talking with kids about tolerance early and often seems to help. (As does encouraging reading a wide range of works, of course. )

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by nekokami

Unfortunately, we didn't get her until she was about 12 (both our kids are adopted from China), so it's been rather hit-or-miss how much we've been able to provide in the way of positive examples. Orphanage life hadn't provided much of a moral code, and some of the foster families she'd been with didn't give her very good role models either. (Others were great.) That's part of older child adoption -- you have to respect that the kid had a life before coming to live with you, and you're not going to be able to just erase or ignore that part.

Oh, certainly. And you cross fingers that you've done the best you can, and that if the kid does make mistakes, they can be corrected, and that the kid will learn from them.

That's a tough one. I'm not sure there's anywhere in the world to move to that wouldn't have some kind of threat like that-- just different flavors of the same. Talking with kids about tolerance early and often seems to help. (As does encouraging reading a wide range of works, of course. )

She needed to move to a big city or equivalent. Yes, there will always be threats like that, but at least there will be countervailing influences. The town she was in struck me as basically bigoted working class poor white, with the corresponding attitudes, as witness the fact that the Aryan Nation was a local force. In a bigger city, people might think that way, but they'd think hard before admitting it in public.

I met a girl years back, during a dog and pony show my then employer was putting on at the Louisiana State Fair. The State Fair was in Shreveport, which I considered a cultural wasteland. She was a daughter of the local contractor who was largely responsible for us being there. She was about to graduate high school, and was considering where to go to college. All we could say was "Go somewhere else! If you stay here, you'll wind up like every other girl like you we've seen at the Fair, with a baby in a carriage and another on the way, and future options narrowed to wife and mother. If that's what you want to do, fine, but if you have other aspirations, you need to get out of Shreveport to have a realistic hope of achieving them."

Environment counts. A lot.
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Dennis