You Will Never Kill Piracy, and Piracy Will Never Kill You

[JD Gumby]

Originally Posted by HarryT

You may perhaps misunderstand me. I'm not expecting to be able to find out who is using my software illegally. I simply want a practical method of being able to prosecute those whom I do catch (eg selling copies of my software on eBay - that's quite a common thing, sadly).

Frankly, as long as they're selling the original box or the license key (and, obviously, not keeping copies for themselves or selling the same instance multiple times), it is none of your business at all, morally. Just like if you put out a CD or a book or manufactured a car and someone then put it up for sale.

Really, the only ones with any real reason to complain about copyright infringement of the downloading sort are the used music, DVD, video game, and (most relevant to this site) book dealers, as well movie/game rental shops (Blockbuster), and any public library that might have to justify its existance purely based on the number of borrowed items in any given period. THEY are the ones where a downloaded copy is almost certainly a lost sale/rental, not the original producer of the "intellectual property," as their customers generally wouldn't buy new and therefore wouldn't be giving the OP anything anyways.

[JD Gumby]

Originally Posted by HarryT

2. There is no good method for content creators to prosecute people who infringe their rights. The only recourse is civil prosecution. This is extremely expensive for both the rights holder and the offender. We need a low-cost, quick, system to settle these cases which doesn't result in ruinous costs for both sides.

In other words, you want what the MPAA & RIAA (in the USA) and their various international puppets and equivalents want: to be able to accuse and claim damages without actually having to prove any infringement actually happened or prove any actual damages to you.

[Jozawun]

Originally Posted by JD Gumby

In other words, you want what the MPAA & RIAA (in the USA) and their various international puppets and equivalents want: to be able to accuse and claim damages without actually having to prove any infringement actually happened or prove any actual damages to you.

Geez, mate, fair suck of the sav!
He didn't say anything of the sort.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by JD Gumby

Frankly, as long as they're selling the original box or the license key (and, obviously, not keeping copies for themselves or selling the same instance multiple times), it is none of your business at all, morally.

I'm referring to people selling illegal copies.

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I'm referring to people selling illegal copies.

Yeah, but it's easier for people to refute arguments you haven't made than arguments you have.

[Jozawun]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

Yeah, but it's easier for people to refute arguments you haven't made than arguments you have.

Yes, and it's also easier.
Moreover, it's creative work, on which they can claim copyright.

[spindlegirl]

Our culture in general has a relaxed attitude to "torrenting".

Depending on where you are on the internet. I belong to a knitting site, and I see conversations about people who torrented this or that show so they could "catch up", and wholehearted approval and pats on the back, but find one of the knitting patterns on a torrent site? Evil thieves! How dare they think they can get a designer's work for free?!?

I sometimes do a word search for the word "torrent" on twitter and I find tweets that from the same user "don't mind"' torrenting one thing, but other things are sacrosanct and they refuse to touch it.

[avantman42]

Originally Posted by HarryT

2. There is no good method for content creators to prosecute people who infringe their rights. The only recourse is civil prosecution. This is extremely expensive for both the rights holder and the offender. We need a low-cost, quick, system to settle these cases which doesn't result in ruinous costs for both sides.

Unless I'm mistaken, the UK IPO recently announced that what you want is now possible. I created a news thread about it, but basically, copyright and other IP claims of up to £5,000 can now be pursued on the small claims track.

Is that the sort of thing you wanted?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by avantman42

Unless I'm mistaken, the UK IPO recently announced that what you want is now possible. I created a news thread about it, but basically, copyright and other IP claims of up to £5,000 can now be pursued on the small claims track.

Is that the sort of thing you wanted?

Sounds like it might well be . Thanks - I hadn't heard about that; I'll have to investigate further. Many thanks for the link!

[Dylan Tomorrow]

Copyright is a government-authorised monopoly, piracy is simply outlawed competition. Thus copyright legislation is just anti-competitive and leads to inferior products (overpriced, DRMed, wrong/missing/low-quality formats/media, delayed release dates, shitty DVD transfers, holding back soft-cover books for months etc.)

I am for the abolition of copyright law. If that won't happen, at least make it stop at a sensible time, say 5—10 years maximum after the death of the creator(s) and legalize noncommercial filesharing. Anything less just won't work.

I also like to buy digital music and ebooks, when they are priced right and the service is good. Thus I buy Kindle books (in spite of the DRM) and Amazon MP3s, particularly because of the Cloud backup, the ability to use the files on all devices I want to use them on, and the knowing that the creators get their fair share.

Unfortunately, there is no such service for movies yet. I live in Europe, so no Netflix or Amazon VOD. I use Linux, so iTunes does not work. Thus I am only left with DVDs and going to the cinema which I won't bother with unless I really (think I will) love a movie alot.

One of the websites where I have bought probably the most digital books and audio is a very small niche publisher who never used DRM and always offered cloud storage of my files bought there, all the way back to 2006. As far as I know, that publisher started out by selling their ebooks as unprotected .doc Microsoft Word files back in 1998 and it certainly worked for them ever since (They later moved on to PDF and now MOBI and EPUB). They did not even sell physical books till years later. Amazon has caught up to them with audio, but not with books yet. Goes to show how inflexible big corporations are.

[GreenMonkey]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I'm referring to people selling illegal copies.

People selling bootlegs and other illegal copies - deserve to be prosecuted. And they are here in the U.S. - big bootleg DVD operations have been shut down here - that's a criminal offense.

Here's an example:

http://www.timesnews.net/article/903...f-pirated-dvds


There's a difference between someone illegally downloading something to use it - they might never have bought it, and how it's not that different than using a library - and someone profiting off others' work with fake merchandise.

[heySkippy]

Originally Posted by Dylan Tomorrow

legalize noncommercial filesharing.

LOL, what could possibly go wrong with that?

[Dylan Tomorrow]

Originally Posted by heySkippy

LOL, what could possibly go wrong with that?

According to too many scared people, it seems like the sky will indeed fall once that happens. On the other hand, non-commercial filesharing is already legal in several countries, e. g. Spain, so yeah ... It's probably not gonna bring about the end of civilization as we know it.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by spindlegirl

Our culture in general has a relaxed attitude to "torrenting".

Depending on where you are on the internet. I belong to a knitting site, and I see conversations about people who torrented this or that show so they could "catch up", and wholehearted approval and pats on the back, but find one of the knitting patterns on a torrent site? Evil thieves! How dare they think they can get a designer's work for free?!?

I sometimes do a word search for the word "torrent" on twitter and I find tweets that from the same user "don't mind"' torrenting one thing, but other things are sacrosanct and they refuse to touch it.

Torrents are funny, though, because there is plenty of legal content. You can download Project Gutenberg collections via torrent--indeed, this is how I discovered torrents. Same thing with the material from the Internet Archive--I've downloaded tons of movies, TV shows, and old radio programs using their torrent links. Sometimes it becomes hard to tell what is legitimately public domain and what is not.

[JoeD]

Originally Posted by spindlegirl

Our culture in general has a relaxed attitude to "torrenting".

Depending on where you are on the internet. I belong to a knitting site, and I see conversations about people who torrented this or that show so they could "catch up", and wholehearted approval and pats on the back, but find one of the knitting patterns on a torrent site? Evil thieves! How dare they think they can get a designer's work for free?!?

I sometimes do a word search for the word "torrent" on twitter and I find tweets that from the same user "don't mind"' torrenting one thing, but other things are sacrosanct and they refuse to touch it.

I actually sympathise and understand that view.

Since in the UK it's legal to record a program in order to time-shift. Catchup TV is in itself a form of time-shifting. Missing a show on tv that you legally had access to (ie if it was a Cable/Sky exclusive you have to have a valid and current subscription to that service) then downloading a torrent watching it and deleting it is little different to setting the recorder, recording it, watching it and deleting it.

Of course the law says different, one if legal, one isn't. But I can easily see why people don't see catch-up torrenting as wrong.

It's not a big problem really, as services are becoming available for free from most TV companies to allow catch-up/on demand. It's a problem that will eventually go away.