Donations temporarily disabled - Page 2

williamsonday · 09-23-2012, 11:48 PM

I have sent the following protest to PayPal. I encourage others to do the same. This is outrageous.

I would like to register a protest over the fact that paypal has cut off support for contributions to the development of the Calibre ebook software by Kovid Goyal in India. The payments are voluntary contributions, not purchases, and they serve to support development of a highly beneficial free software program. This kind of arbitrary action is poor service, poor business, and poor public relations. I cannot imagine that paypal does not have more serious issues to occupy its attention than shutting down a lone Indian software developer who is working in the public interest. I hope that paypal promptly resolves this issue in Mr. Goyal's favor.

fratermus · 09-24-2012, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

IIRC flattr requires a paypal account behind the scenes to receive money.

"How do I withdraw money I make?

When your revenue balance has reached €10 or more you can withdraw the money to PayPal or Moneybookers. You can also use any money you earned to flattr other creators. "

But I dunno if moneybookers is any better.

And there may be a difference taking funds out of flattr to paypal, as presumably flattr wouldn't call it a donation.

DoctorOhh · 09-24-2012, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamsonday

I have sent the following protest to PayPal. I encourage others to do the same. This is outrageous.

You can protest to Paypal all you want to, but it seems as though they are just trying to follow the regulations set forth by the government of India. Looking over Paypal's Donate button page it looks like the US government also has some fingers in this regulatory pie.

HarryT · 09-24-2012, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamsonday

This kind of arbitrary action is poor service, poor business, and poor public relations.

It's not "arbitrary action"; if you look at the e-mail that Kovid received from PayPal you'll see that this is the law in India, and that PayPal had no choice in the matter.

kovidgoyal · 09-24-2012, 03:46 AM

PayPal have completed the review and restored the account. So we can put this to bed. Thanks for all the support.

You should now be able to make donations to calibre again, by clicking the "Support calibre" button.

HarryT · 09-24-2012, 04:00 AM

Delighted to hear that it's been resolved, Kovid.

Perkin · 09-24-2012, 04:39 AM

Does this mean that I have to change my 'Organ Donor Card' to an 'Organ Assist Card' or 'Organ Support Card'

DoctorOhh · 09-24-2012, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perkin

Does this mean that I have to change my 'Organ Donor Card' to an 'Organ Assist Card' or 'Organ Support Card'

Yes .

williamsonday · 09-24-2012, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoctorOhh

You can protest to Paypal all you want to, but it seems as though they are just trying to follow the regulations set forth by the government of India. Looking over Paypal's Donate button page it looks like the US government also has some fingers in this regulatory pie.

Look, I am glad the situation is resolved. But I haven't seen any cites to any code or regulation, whether in India or the United States, in either of the pages you reference. Accordingly, I don't know where you come up with the idea that there is a regulatory issue in the United States, and it is at least open to question whether there is one in India. Just because PayPal waves around some vague language about complying with an unspecified law that supposedly prohibits use of the word "donate" doesn't make it the law. Even if there is a law, there is no way to determine whether PayPal is interpreting it correctly or consistently in light of the lack of information PayPal has provided. A choice of words as fine grained as "donate," "support," or "assist" in a "commercial" enterprise is arbitrary on its face, and PayPal has done nothing to show otherwise. A quick Google search shows that there is a great deal of confusion about the "donate" button in India but little clarity. I agree that the issue is moot, for the moment, but only because PayPal has apparently arbitrarily decided that "support" is O.K. but "donate" is not.

Adoby · 09-24-2012, 05:26 PM

PayPal charges less for transactions that involves donations to nonprofit charities and the like. They have to be able to prove that status in their own country. Tax exemption and so on.

I believe it would be impossible for Kovid to demonstrate this. That's why he's no longer allowed to accept "donations" via PayPal. But he can accept "support", meaning that PayPal can take a slightly larger cut of the transactions.

In effect, by making restrictions for donations, PayPal increase their profit. Nothing wrong with that. Profit is nice. If we don't like it, we can decide not to use PayPal. Unfortunately there is no good alternative.

williamsonday · 09-24-2012, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adoby

PayPal charges less for transactions that involves donations to nonprofit charities and the like. They have to be able to prove that status in their own country. Tax exemption and so on.

I believe it would be impossible for Kovid to demonstrate this. That's why he's no longer allowed to accept "donations" via PayPal. But he can accept "support", meaning that PayPal can take a slightly larger cut of the transactions.

In effect, by making restrictions for donations, PayPal increase their profit. Nothing wrong with that. Profit is nice. If we don't like it, we can decide not to use PayPal. Unfortunately there is no good alternative.

Lower rates, in the USA at least, only apply to registered 501(c)(3) charities. https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/donations Other non-profits pay the standard rates. Why is Kovid Goyal not an "other" non-profit? After all, he is not selling Calibre. And while there is nothing wrong with making a profit, that is not the same as being required by law to follow a certain course of action. And still there has been no citation to any applicable law or regulation by anybody, PayPal included. So why is everybody so eager to make excuses for a multinational financial company over a lone software developer?

DoctorOhh · 09-24-2012, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamsonday

Look, I am glad the situation is resolved. But I haven't seen any cites to any code or regulation, whether in India or the United States, in either of the pages you reference.

OK Paypal lied to Kovid. Now quit trolling the thread, be happy and go support calibre! That's what I'm going to do.

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09-23-2012, 11:48 PM	#16
williamsonday Junior Member Posts: 3 Karma: 10 Join Date: Sep 2012 Device: Kindle	I have sent the following protest to PayPal. I encourage others to do the same. This is outrageous. I would like to register a protest over the fact that paypal has cut off support for contributions to the development of the Calibre ebook software by Kovid Goyal in India. The payments are voluntary contributions, not purchases, and they serve to support development of a highly beneficial free software program. This kind of arbitrary action is poor service, poor business, and poor public relations. I cannot imagine that paypal does not have more serious issues to occupy its attention than shutting down a lone Indian software developer who is working in the public interest. I hope that paypal promptly resolves this issue in Mr. Goyal's favor.

09-24-2012, 03:46 AM	#20
kovidgoyal creator of calibre Posts: 45,359 Karma: 27182818 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mumbai, India Device: Various	PayPal have completed the review and restored the account. So we can put this to bed. Thanks for all the support. You should now be able to make donations to calibre again, by clicking the "Support calibre" button.

09-24-2012, 04:00 AM	#21
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Delighted to hear that it's been resolved, Kovid.

09-24-2012, 04:39 AM	#22
Perkin Guru Posts: 657 Karma: 64171 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Kent, England, Sol 3, ZZ9 plural Z Alpha Device: Sony PRS-300, Kobo Aura HD, iPad (Marvin)	Does this mean that I have to change my 'Organ Donor Card' to an 'Organ Assist Card' or 'Organ Support Card'

09-24-2012, 05:26 PM	#25
Adoby Handy Elephant Posts: 1,737 Karma: 26785684 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Southern Sweden, far out in the quiet woods Device: Samsung Galaxy Tab S8 Ultra	PayPal charges less for transactions that involves donations to nonprofit charities and the like. They have to be able to prove that status in their own country. Tax exemption and so on. I believe it would be impossible for Kovid to demonstrate this. That's why he's no longer allowed to accept "donations" via PayPal. But he can accept "support", meaning that PayPal can take a slightly larger cut of the transactions. In effect, by making restrictions for donations, PayPal increase their profit. Nothing wrong with that. Profit is nice. If we don't like it, we can decide not to use PayPal. Unfortunately there is no good alternative.

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