Live Blogs - Apple Press Event 12 Sep 12

[holymadness]

Originally Posted by Graham

Oh pleaaaaaase don't post that thoroughly debunked image yet again. We've been round this loop in too many threads!



Graham

Ah yes, this picture. Where the "before" designs are concepts that were never manufactured.

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by holymadness

Amirite?

Since you said the same thing that I did you must be!

Is what we have today better than what we might have had today if Apple had not interfered? We will never know, but your before pictures would have evolved into something else today with or without Apple, maybe much better.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by holymadness

I had a Creative Zen, too, back in the day. I'm not a musician so I have no particular audiophile credentials, but I do recall that it played 128kbps mp3s same as any other music player and that its PC software was horribly slow and buggy. It was also button controlled, which was far less efficient than the iPod's scroll wheel, the element that really led to its massive success.

My first Zen had touch sensitive buttons; clunkier than the scroll wheel definitely but perfectly useable. Why they later went for the buttons that appeared on my Zen X-Fi I've no idea.

Agreed that their own PC software was slow and buggy but you didn't need to use it since the Zen Micro worked perfectly directly with Windows Media Player (and in my case legal Napster when it launched). You could also just drag music across to it.

iTunes was a better overall music ecosystem, and deserved its massive success, but the Creative devices worked extremely well with PCs.

Audio quality was undoubtedly better on the Creative Zen. The sound was fuller, with richer bass than on friends' iPods (same headphones).

Graham

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

Is what we have today better than what we might have had today if Apple had not interfered?

Interfered?
I get that you don't like Apple, but since when is releasing a successful product interfering with something?
Apple created the consumer tablet market. Someone else might have done it, but they didn't, Apple did. There were tablets before, but there weren't mainstream consumer devices that you might see someone using in a coffee shop.

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by ScotiaBurrell

I think some sort of NFC system will be the next big thing, but not everyone agrees:

https://twitter.com/treestman/status/246092364345651200


Thats it for the cellphone. It's probably as good as it can be. Home video is next.

NFC is already pretty much old hat technologically, and is already in some phones. By "old hat" I mean that there are lots of patents on it already, and some are held by companies that I hold stock in, so my bets are down.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by holymadness

Ah yes, this picture. Where the "before" designs are concepts that were never manufactured.

Prototype designs existed, which is perfectly acceptable prior art. And I think you'll find that Apple didn't release a prototype iPhone before the iPhone either.

Graham

[holymadness]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

Since you said the same thing that I did you must be!

Is what we have today better than what we might have had today if Apple had not interfered? We will never know, but your before pictures would have evolved into something else today with or without Apple, maybe much better.

"Interfered." LOL Here is a true hater. One who can never forgive Apple for existing. Either it's an irrelevant company that hasn't innovated since the 80s or it's a nefarious organization that wrecked the course of human history and prevented us from reaching the promised land of stylus-input Windows x86 tablets with built-in hand-grips. Hard to tell. Sometimes it depends on what he had for breakfast that morning.

Keep banging that drum.

[ScotiaBurrell]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

Apple created the consumer tablet market. Someone else might have done it, but they didn't, Apple did. There were tablets before, but there weren't mainstream consumer devices that you might see someone using in a coffee shop.

Even the hardest core android crusader has to agree with that.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by holymadness

What a coincidence. Tablets and smartphones have existed forever but somehow, no one saw fit to release any until Apple took the lead. Oh wait, they did:

And you had to go post the other debunked image. I'm not even going to bother to post the replies...

Graham

[MovieBird]

Originally Posted by foghat

The original ipod (and all its iterations) wasn't innovative? Or how about the itunes store - which pretty much single handedly redefined how music (and later movies/tv shows) could be distributed/sold.

You mean MP3 players did not exist before the iPod? What about all the Creative products? The Nomad II even had a wheel similar to what the iPod ended up with. I can't find a ship date for it, but there's an Epionions review for it several months before the iPod debuted. Also, the manual is copyright 1999. But if you mean the actual capacitive touch of the wheel, well, Apple didn't invent that. Synaptics did.

As far as iTunes, it's very nicely integrated. However, you could purchase digital music before iTunes, just not all in one place. If you wanted a single source for music, Napster or Kazaa were always available.

Originally Posted by foghat

How about the original iphone and the original iOS - of which without, smart phones (as we know them today) and andriod would quite possibly not even exist today. And almost certainly would not exist with the look and feel we know today.

The iPhone was not the first phone to have touch, or even apps. They were the first to tie into a proprietary sales channel so nicely, however. To wit, the Nokia 60 series had downloadable apps. Hell, Nokia even had the iTunes idea back in 2004, but management didn't buy off link. Symbian was also amazingly iOS like, before iOS.

At best, Apple put a much needed level of polish on top of other people's great ideas.

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

Interfered?
I get that you don't like Apple, but since when is releasing a successful product interfering with something?

Potato Potahto. A successful product is just another product, but one that does well in the market place. It is NOT technological innovation. The tablet market was an already existing market when Apple entered the field, so they did not innovate that, they just entered the market at the right time with their hype machine going full blast.

[holymadness]

Originally Posted by Graham

Prototypes existed, which is perfectly acceptable prior art. And I think you'll find that Apple didn't release a prototype iPhone before the iPhone either.

Graham

Well, I am not making a comment on the trial in particular, rather on the fact that prototypes that remained shelved suddenly took on a new importance.

There are other misleading elements on that chart; the F700 concept, for example, had a slideout keyboard and a UI that is not at all app- or icon-based. You can't tell from the photo.

There is also a time issue. The iPhone was enormously derided when it first came out. It didn't have 3rd party apps, it didn't have 3G, it was too expensive, so on and so forth. It took a couple years for it to catch on and have the influence it did on competing products. Android, too, needed to be invented to give other manufacturers an OS that could compare on features. I owned a Samsung iPhone clone once, called the Instinct if I'm not mistaken, which was marketed as an "Apple Eater" and had 4 rows of touchscreen icons and was an attempt at a blatant copy but its software was so feeble that I junked it after a year. Still, they tried.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by ScotiaBurrell

Even the hardest core android crusader has to agree with that.

Absolutely. I've got no problem applauding Apple for creating the tablet market, for its brilliant ecosystem, and for the success of both the iPhone and the iPod. I agree that Android built on the ideas that iOS crystallised and showed were desirable.

What annoys me is when history gets rewritten, and due deference isn't given to what came before.

Graham

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by holymadness

Keep banging that drum.

Keep bowing to Cupertino every morning.

You are correct that I do not like Apple any longer, I never tried to hide that. They had so much going for them at one time, before they became deluded by their own hype. Now it seems that they do not dare to innovate for fear of killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

[ScotiaBurrell]

Holymadness...what about this?