Apple v Samsung: Can Look and Feel Be Patented?

[ScotiaBurrell]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

slavishly copying

...at least the UI is different.

[JoHunt]

In a related claim, a court in S. Korea has ruled that Apple and Samsung infringed each other's patents.

A South Korean court hearing mutual patent lawsuits between Samsung Electronics Co. and Apple Inc. delivered a split decision Friday which analysts said offered little advantage for either company.

The three judge panel ruled that Apple had violated two Samsung patents, while Samsung violated one of Apple’s.

The Seoul Central District Court ordered both companies to halt sales of electronic products that infringe patents in South Korea.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/app...?siteid=yhoof2

[ST-One]

Originally Posted by ScotiaBurrell

For the most part, the Android OEMs have diverged from copying Apple. Lots of diversity in design now.

Originally Posted by ScotiaBurrell

...at least the UI is different.

If you are trying to say that these things look like copies of Apple-products, then you should have your eyes checked.

[Graham]

Here's the BBC take on the Seoul court ruling:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19364875

The sales ban will apply to Apple's iPhone3GS, iPhone4 and its tablets the iPad and ipad2.

Samsung products affected by the ban include its smartphone models Galaxy SI and SII and its Galaxy Tab and the Galaxy Tab 10.1 tablet PCs.

So both firms are banned from selling their older products, which will make those shiny new shops look a bit empty, but probably won't be too onerous for either firm.

Still, South Korea banning any Samsung products at all is unexpected.

It should be noted that the bans were entirely due to the infringement of the technical patents. The Seoul judges concurred with those in the Netherlands and UK that there was no infringement of trade dress.

... the defendant (Samsung) differentiated its products with three buttons in the front and adopted different designs in camera and [on the] side, the two products have a different look," the judge said.

Graham

[kennyc]

South Korea court says Samsung did NOT copy iPhone design...

SEOUL, South Korea – South Korea's Samsung won a home court ruling in its global smartphone battle against Apple on Friday when Seoul judges said the company didn't copy the look and feel of the U.S. company's iPhone, and that Apple infringed on Samsung's wireless technology.

A South Korean court ruled on Friday that U.S. tech giant Apple and Samsung Electronics had infringed on each other's patents, ordering damage payments from both firms.

By Park Ji-Hwan, AFP/Getty Images

However, in a split decision on patents, the panel also said Samsung violated Apple technology behind the bounce-back feature when scrolling on touch screens, and ordered both sides to pay limited damages.

The Seoul Central District Court ruling called for a partial ban on sales of products including iPads and smartphones from both companies, though the verdict did not affect the latest-generation phones — Apple's iPhone 4S or Samsung's Galaxy S3.

The ruling affects only the South Korean market, and is part of a larger, epic struggle over patents and innovation unfolding in nine countries. The biggest stakes are in the U.S., where Apple is suing Samsung for $2.5 billion over allegations it has created illegal knockoffs of iPhones and iPads.
...

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/st...uit/57260602/1

[ScotiaBurrell]

Originally Posted by ST-One

If you are trying to say that these things look like copies of Apple-products, then you should have your eyes checked.

No, I was saying that they didn't. The nexus yes, but UI different. All these should have been released first, not their copies.

[ScotiaBurrell]

Originally Posted by kennyc

South Korea court says Samsung did NOT copy iPhone design...

You left this out

The Seoul ruling was a rare victory for Samsung in its arguments that Apple has infringed on its wireless technology patents, which previously have been shot down by courts in Europe where judges have ruled that they are part of industry standards that must be licensed under fair terms to competitors.

"This is basically Samsung's victory on its home territory," said patent attorney Jeong Woo-sung. "Out of nine countries, Samsung got the ruling that it wanted for the first time in South Korea."

[Graham]

Originally Posted by ScotiaBurrell

All these should have been released first, not their copies.

Well, to be fair, the HTC phones never looked anything like the iPhone, and this is Google's first tablet. Really the only one that 'copy' could really be levelled at was the original Samsung Galaxy S vs the iPhone 3 series - the S2 was quite distinctive - and none of them look like an iPhone 4.

Where I do feel 'blatant copying' took place was with the packaging of the Galaxys (the boxes) and Touchwiz which definitely takes Android and skins the icons to feel more like iOS. (And my phone's a Galaxy S.)

Please, please let Samsung get a hearty rap on the knuckles for their packaging and a hefty fine for Touchwiz, but let all other aspects be dropped so we can all move on!

Better still, please could the court rule that Touchwiz should be banned from all Samsung devices forever more and that they should just run the latest versions possible of stock Android...

Graham

[din155]

Originally Posted by Graham

Please, please let Samsung get a hearty rap on the knuckles for their packaging and a hefty fine for Touchwiz, but let all other aspects be dropped so we can all move on!

Better still, please could the court rule that Touchwiz should be banned from all Samsung devices forever more and that they should just run the latest versions possible of stock Android...

Graham

hahaha dream on

[ScotiaBurrell]

former Apple fan rips them to shreds here:

http://www.suntimes.com/technology/i...e-rip-off.html

I think Apple’s attorney’s shot themselves in the foot by presenting this document. It certainly cost them the “hearts and minds” part of the war...

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by afv011

You are wrong, the money is important, but what's more important is the precedent it would set. If apple wins, they'll go after somebody else and strangle the competition in the US, and could set of a patent war in pretty much any other segment. If Samsung wins, apple would have lost the scare tactic and wouldn't be able to go bullying around other Android OEMs.

This is silly.

If Apple wins, other companies will be less likely to steal original ideas created other companies. Companies will be able to spend years carefully designing the best product possible and not have to fear that this work will be wasted because another company will be able to copy their designs in a matter of months and put out a similar looking design.

If Samsung wins, there is the possibility that companies won't spend time carefully designing products because their work will be able to be ripped off by other companies who didn't invest the time, effort, or money in creating the design.

That's what this case is really about. The idea it's about "competition" is just a Samsung talking point.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

If Apple wins, other companies will be less likely to steal original ideas created other companies.

Did you read the document linked in the post above yours by Scotia?

OK, now let’s move on to the (Samsung) Blackjack II. This one had the familiar pre-iPhone Blackberry styling: a phone with a thumb keyboard, underneath an old-fashioned landscape color display, running Windows Mobile. It didn’t have a touchscreen: you navigated the UI via a jogwheel. It was released in late 2007, less than a year after the iPhone. But it was just a linear upgrade of the first Blackjack, which debuted in 2006.

Apple’s presentation breaks down the license fee thusly: the Blackjack earned a 20 percent discount because of the Samsung/Apple cross-licensing; a 40 percent discount because it used a Microsoft OS (Apple and Microsoft had an existing cross-license in place); and a 20 percent discount because it had a QWERTY keyboard.

So according to Apple, the Blackjack, a device that could hardly be more different from the iPhone, and which was initially developed before anybody outside of Apple had the slightest idea of what an iPhone would look like or behave like, is a ripoff of the iPhone to the tune of $6 per unit.

Let’s put it another way: Apple insists that the Blackjack is actually 80 percent ripped off from the iPhone, but hey, Apple’s willing to forgive $24 of the $30 Samsung owes.

And when you’ve finished wrapping your head around that one, you can check out the table on Page 18, in which Apple says that Samsung would owe $51,000,000 for licensing fees on Symbian-based and “Other” phones. On what planet is a 2006-era Nokia, or a 2005 “free with contract” 3G candybar phone, in any way a ripoff of the iPhone?

Apple's opinion of what's a rip off of their designs seems at odds with what I'd see as close copying of original design.

Graham

[ScotiaBurrell]

That blackjack request was just hubris. I hope it no longer exists inside apple.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by ScotiaBurrell

You left this out

I didn't leave anything out. I linked to the article mr mac.

[afv011]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

This is silly.

If Apple wins, other companies will be less likely to steal original ideas created other companies. Companies will be able to spend years carefully designing the best product possible and not have to fear that this work will be wasted because another company will be able to copy their designs in a matter of months and put out a similar looking design.

If Samsung wins, there is the possibility that companies won't spend time carefully designing products because their work will be able to be ripped off by other companies who didn't invest the time, effort, or money in creating the design.

That's what this case is really about. The idea it's about "competition" is just a Samsung talking point.

This is silly.

It is not about sane competition, it's about using the courts to strangle competition.

If Apple wins:
Get ready for legal Armageddon. If the Android community thinks Apple is a big threat now, wait until it gets a major victory over Samsung under its belt. A win would embolden Apple to redouble its efforts in the courtroom against the major Android companies, following up on existing conflicts with HTC and Motorola Mobility, and even going after some of the struggling players such as Sony and LG.

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