Sue Grafton: "The universe will come to your aid."

[tompe]

Originally Posted by joeyp

no its an observation that you personally are not intelligent enough to realize that people can see through your obfuscations

there is no intrinsic quality that comes from traditionally published work

just as there is none from self published work

that you can somehow argue that there is is imbecilic

if you take trash and you have it published by a publishing house is it still not trash?

change is good, change is necessary, if you do not change a bandage injuries fester. you keep making arguments as if there is some innate benefit that only a traditionally published work has, when in fact there is none

but go ahead obfuscate all you like

Or we can see that you are not intelligent enough to understand what is written here in this thread since you make so many claims here that is false.

Go ahead, make stupid statements all you like.

[joeyp]

Originally Posted by tompe

Or we can see that you are not intelligent enough to understand what is written here in this thread since you make so many claims here that is false.

Go ahead, make stupid statements all you like.

go ahead then tell us one single intrinsic value that a book has by being published by a publishing house has that being self published cannot have?

just one

the point is it doesnt exist

any book can be great, any book can be trash, just because a book is published by a publishing house, doesnt instantly make it a better book

as much as you and the publishing houses would like to think it does

so go ahead name even just one

[Bilbo1967]

Originally Posted by joeyp

go ahead then tell us one single intrinsic value that a book habby being published by a publishing house has that being self published cannot have?

just one

the point is it doesnt exist

any book can be great, any book can be trash, just because a book is published by a publishing house, doesnt instantly make it a better book

as much as you and the publishing houses would like to think it does

so go ahead name even just one

You do know that people would be more inclined to take you seriously if you learnt to use capital letters and punctuation and spell properly (habby?), don't you?

[DiapDealer]

Wow. This got a little weird.

[joeyp]

Originally Posted by Bilbo1967

You do know that people would be more inclined to take you seriously if you learnt to use capital letters and punctuation and spell properly (habby?), don't you?

so a disabled person (cerebral palsy in my case) hits one key on a keyboard wrong and im totally disregarded?

good to know

the point is, there is not one intrinsic difference between a self published book and one that was published by a publishing house,

books are like people there are good and bad everywhere, regardless of ethnic background, color or creed

what is at issue is control, the publishing houses have had it and they want to keep it, so they spew out that All self published work is inferior or that self published authors are lazy and do not work at their craft,

thats bullspit and you know it, there are independent writers who are very picky about what they release, and there are publishing house Icons like James Patterson and Tom Clancy who now lend their names to far inferior books than they originally authored.

as i've said there is no intrinsic benefit of one over the other, its all a matter of control

[Bilbo1967]

Originally Posted by joeyp

so a disabled person (cerebral palsy in my case) hits one key on a keyboard wrong and im totally disregarded?

good to know

No, refusal to use capital letters or punctuation in post after post is not hitting one key wrong. It's ignorance, pure and simple.

[Belfaborac]

I'm certainly far, far less likely to read a post which lacks proper punctuation, capital letters, paragraph spacing and so on. Firstly because such posts require more decoding work and secondly because experience has taught me that they are often of less "value". The inference being that if the writer either can't be bothered to write properly, or doesn't know how to, then he or she probably can't be bothered to present any worthwhile content either, or doesn't know anything worthwhile.

Obviously this is sometimes deeply unfair, as there are lots of people out there with lots of conditions which make writing hard work. However, I really can't be expected (I think) to consider, much less investigate, what the reason behind an unreadable post is every single time I encounter them. Forum participation is, after all, not something I'm paid for, it's something I do for fun.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by joeyp

so a disabled person (cerebral palsy in my case) hits one key on a keyboard wrong and im totally disregarded?

Even if I stretch a point and believe your excuse that ONE KEY is responsible for the absence of punctuation and standardized capitalization in every single one of your posts, what's your excuse for the extreme rudeness and personal attacks?

[joeyp]

they arent personal attacks, they are exposing people who have biases towards keeping people oppressed

freedom comes at a cost, for a long time publishing houses have controlled who could and who couldnt be published

that is no longer is true, if you and others like you are too lazy to accept that added competition then too bad

I could care less if my writing doesnt meet your standards

I find that elitist and entitled attitudes of those who cant accept change is much more of an issue than those who may write poorly anyway

its usually the last defense of those who have no valid defense for an outdated opinion

I am not a writer, nor do I pretend to be one

but I am all for equal opportunity

[joeyp]

Originally Posted by Bilbo1967

No, refusal to use capital letters or punctuation in post after post is not hitting one key wrong. It's ignorance, pure and simple.

so if i said the British were ignorant for using an extra "u" in Labor and Honor when most of the English writing world does not, then you'd have a problem?

it seems to me that people make allowances every day

I doubt you would call them ignorant, pure and simple.

[QuantumIguana]

Originally Posted by joeyp

they arent personal attacks, they are exposing people who have biases towards keeping people oppressed

freedom comes at a cost, for a long time publishing houses have controlled who could and who couldnt be published

that is no longer is true, if you and others like you are too lazy to accept that added competition then too bad

I could care less if my writing doesnt meet your standards

I find that elitist and entitled attitudes of those who cant accept change is much more of an issue than those who may write poorly anyway

its usually the last defense of those who have no valid defense for an outdated opinion

I am not a writer, nor do I pretend to be one

but I am all for equal opportunity

You're not standing up for freedom, and you're not exposing anything. You are making personal attacks, and whatever cause you're attempting to present, you're not helping it.

[Bilbo1967]

Originally Posted by joeyp

so if i said the British were ignorant for using an extra "u" in Labor and Honor when most of the English writing world does not, then you'd have a problem?

it seems to me that people make allowances every day

I doubt you would call them ignorant, pure and simple.

There are accepted differences in spelling between UK and American English. You correctly identify the use of a 'u' in words such as 'honour/honor'. There is no such similar distinction whereby the use of capital letters and apostrophes are considered optional.

You are correct, I would not call Americans who spell the word 'honor' ignorant. I would call anybody, you included, who can't be bothered to capitalise or use apostrophes, ignorant; pure and simple.

[fjtorres]

Guys, Grafton's (careless?) use of words that could be construed as personal attacks launched this thread. She should have been more careful (which her damage control followup didn't address at all) and so should we. We're debating ideas, not people.

For what it's worth, whenever I see a comment that so irritates me that I *have* to reply I take care to counter it in general terms without quoting or addressing the poster. If a poster builds a track record of irritating me, I ignore them and the posts.

As James Bond would say, sometimes it is best to "Live and let die".

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by BeccaPrice

May I recommend Calling Invisible Women by Jeanen Ray, or Garden Spells by Sarah Addison Allen? both are lit fic, in the style called, I think, magical realism, and both are great fun. (but Garden Spells was the only thing by Allen I've read, and I understand Calling Invisible Women was a departure for Ray.)

Both of these were found through reviews on Dear Author, otherwise I'd have avoided them like the plague - like you, I tend to avoid lit fic as most of it is depressing.

I'll look into both but I make no promises.
I gave up on magical realism after LIKE WATER FOR CHOCOLATE. Not that it's bad but the whole thing struck me as style over substance and once you strip away the style the underlying substance wasn't all that substantial.

Even in SF I find limited appeal in the "lyrical" stylist/wordsmiths like Bradbury and Ellison. They craft beautiful prose but if I wanted beautiful prose I'd go look for poetry.

Sorry but I'm more of a pizza and beer kinda guy rather than a fine wine chaser.

[Belfaborac]

Originally Posted by joeyp

so if i said the British were ignorant for using an extra "u" in Labor and Honor when most of the English writing world does not

Reference?