Surface tablet pricing still unknown: PC vendors on a lookout - Page 2

fjtorres · 08-14-2012, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward M. Grant

You may have missed the millions of complaints about Microsoft pushing a tablet interface onto Windows 8 desktop machines.

Millions? Really?
Seriously? Not even close.
Again: look at your Windows release history. The IT types *always* whines. A lot of storm and fury and it *never* means anything.
And the Win8 start screen is *not* a "Tablet interface". It is usable on XBOXes, Phones, and PCs. (To say nothing of the fact that PCs *still* have the Desktop one hardwired hot-key away.)

All these obituaries for a product that won't ship for three months?
Hyperventilation over very little.

fjtorres · 08-14-2012, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valkrider

Sorry you are wrong there M$ is a hardware company too. Xbox 360, keyboards, mice, webcams to name but a few.

They always have been.
Microsoft Soft card, vintage 1980:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z-80_SoftCard

MS has *always* seen hardware as a vehicle for delivering/supporting software sales. When the hardware is not available, they deliver it.
When the only available hardware is substandard (or there is good money in it) they deliver it.

fjtorres · 08-14-2012, 07:56 AM

All the angst over Surface pricing is pointless.

Microsoft has already made it clear that they will price Surface competitively with other comparable products *and* that they will allow "price parity" for OEMs.

For those not familiar with corporate-speak: they will be priced with a decent profit margin baked-in, not below cost. (So if a Surface Tablet shows up at $199 it will only be if all OEMs have the ability to profitably sell $199 WinTabs.)

MS has made it clear that the reason they are doing Surface is to show everybody how Windows Tablets are *supposed* to work. How good Windows is when it's not crippled by corner-cutting components, trial-ware, generic drivers, etc.

Desktop PCs are established commodities, diversified into all sorts of niche and specialty products as required; tablets aren't. So far, OEMs have treated TabletPCs as a niche (and priced them accordingly high) instead of as a potential mainstream consumer product. That changes with Win8.

Surface, by providing a benchmark for performance, features, and price, will now force the OEM to treat the category as a mainstream product, not an after-thought. Small wonder they are squealing like pigs: they either improve on the Surface features and quality if they wish to charge more or they are forced to charge less if they deliver an inferior product.

Now, how is that bad for consumers?

No need to dream of $199 or $2000 Surface computers; neither is going to happen.
Neither version is going to be a basic, stripper model; MS is *not* going to be competing with Coby or Archos or any of the zillion android "crap-pads" in pharmacies and liquidation outlets. Neither are they going to be gold-plated status symbols for the Ferrari crowd. They *will* be priced in general iPad and ultrabook pricing range. They *said* so! They *have* to.

$399-699 for the ARM-based Tablets and $699-999 for the ultrabook-class Pro model are both likely and reasonable.

Me, I'm aiming for the x86 model so, unless one of the OEMs (Lenovo?) wows me with a cheaper WinTab, I'll likely pick up a Surface some time next spring, after they've been out a couple months and the market takes shape. I know what Microsoft is doing; I now want to see what their "partners" will do. (Besides bluster and whine.)

tereza18gr · 08-14-2012, 08:03 AM

Still confused, too I must say. I think I'll wait to see how it goes until I can tell whether it's a smart move

fjtorres · 08-14-2012, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tereza18gr

Still confused, too I must say. I think I'll wait to see how it goes until I can tell whether it's a smart move

It may or not be smart but the OEMs made it necessary.
Which is why their whining is so amusing.

heySkippy · 08-14-2012, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6charlong

It seems to me as if Microsoft is too focused on Apple when the real danger is Android.

Apple makes money, lots of money, while Android makes diddly. Microsoft is rightly focused on Apple.

Dulin's Books · 08-14-2012, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tereza18gr

The pricing for the Surface tablet hasn’t been made public yet. But a low tiered $199 Surface tablet could spell doom for other companies that carry the Windows OS.

from the original quote above- There has not been any indication at all that MS was considering some low ball $199 for the Surface RT and certainly not for the Surface Pro. They clearly indicated that pricing would be consistent with other offerings with comparable specs. So the RT/Arm Surface would be in the $400-$500 starting price range as for similarly sized and spec'd Android tablets and iPads.

The Surface Pro they said would be priced similarly to Ultrabooks. I've seen some starting in the $600s so that means more than likely $600-$800 starting range depending on internal memory and wireless capability.

They wont be building a barebones 7" Surface (at least at launch)

GreenMonkey · 08-14-2012, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Millions? Really?
Seriously? Not even close.
Again: look at your Windows release history. The IT types *always* whines. A lot of storm and fury and it *never* means anything.
And the Win8 start screen is *not* a "Tablet interface". It is usable on XBOXes, Phones, and PCs. (To say nothing of the fact that PCs *still* have the Desktop one hardwired hot-key away.)

All these obituaries for a product that won't ship for three months?
Hyperventilation over very little.

It does, though. I.T. folks, along with lots of driver incompatibilities, admittedly, helped give Vista a huge negative buzz. The buzz from the tech saavy and the tech industry does make a difference.

It can't kill a product, but it can make an impact. And techies are pretty down on Windows 8...some of them really, really hate shoehorning the Win 8 tile start screen onto the desktop.

I don't know about the success of Windows RT. I think Surface Pro with x86 has a lot of potential, though - I'd certainly be considering it next year if I had some cash. Looks like an awesome gadget.

Dulin's Books · 08-14-2012, 12:24 PM

Ahh i see from an Engadget article that the $199 price comes from anonymous sources that say that price was said by MS Execs at the recent TechReady15 conference.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/14/m...t-surface-199/

That particular conference is for employees only. If Mr Wang from Acer heard it from one of those employees directly instead of the internet grapvine I wonder if that could be considered industrial espionage?

fjtorres · 08-14-2012, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenMonkey

It does, though. I.T. folks, along with lots of driver incompatibilities, admittedly, helped give Vista a huge negative buzz. The buzz from the tech saavy and the tech industry does make a difference.

Most of the Vista bad rep came from these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5z0Ia5jDt4

And the bulk of the features at issue were added to address corporate IT types.

teh603 · 08-14-2012, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjtorres

MS has *always* seen hardware as a vehicle for delivering/supporting software sales. When the hardware is not available, they deliver it.
When the only available hardware is substandard (or there is good money in it) they deliver it.

That's what I was trying to get at, but aparrently said it wrong.

fjtorres · 08-14-2012, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dulin's Books

Ahh i see from an Engadget article that the $199 price comes from anonymous sources that say that price was said by MS Execs at the recent TechReady15 conference.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/14/m...t-surface-199/

Ah, the ever-reliable "anonymous source".
Almost as credible as Digitimes, no?

I'll take their Microsoft's pronouncements for now: comparable pricing.

StoryEnthusiast · 08-14-2012, 06:28 PM

There's really not much we can do here. We'll have to wait until MS ships the product and then see for ourselves.

SeaKing · 08-14-2012, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StoryEnthusiast

There's really not much we can do here. We'll have to wait until MS ships the product and then see for ourselves.

I beg your pardon!

There is lots to do.
Fussing.
Fretting.
Speculating.
Reminiscing.
Arguing.
Bemoaning.
...

on and on,

or why else a forum?

HansTWN · 08-14-2012, 10:40 PM

Intel based Surface tablets would, of course, offer much greater functionality than iPads or Android tablets. The question is how they measure up on usability, battery life, weight, and not heating up.

If all that is working fine, then a higher price surely would be justified. Although it would be a smart move to price them slightly lower than iPads.

As for Windows RT ARM versions, we really don't know enough to pass judgement. They do come with full fledged MS office versions, which definitely is a great plus.

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08-14-2012, 07:56 AM	#18
fjtorres Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,732 Karma: 128354696 Join Date: May 2009 Location: 26 kly from Sgr A* Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000	All the angst over Surface pricing is pointless. Microsoft has already made it clear that they will price Surface competitively with other comparable products and that they will allow "price parity" for OEMs. For those not familiar with corporate-speak: they will be priced with a decent profit margin baked-in, not below cost. (So if a Surface Tablet shows up at $199 it will only be if all OEMs have the ability to profitably sell $199 WinTabs.) MS has made it clear that the reason they are doing Surface is to show everybody how Windows Tablets are supposed to work. How good Windows is when it's not crippled by corner-cutting components, trial-ware, generic drivers, etc. Desktop PCs are established commodities, diversified into all sorts of niche and specialty products as required; tablets aren't. So far, OEMs have treated TabletPCs as a niche (and priced them accordingly high) instead of as a potential mainstream consumer product. That changes with Win8. Surface, by providing a benchmark for performance, features, and price, will now force the OEM to treat the category as a mainstream product, not an after-thought. Small wonder they are squealing like pigs: they either improve on the Surface features and quality if they wish to charge more or they are forced to charge less if they deliver an inferior product. Now, how is that bad for consumers? No need to dream of $199 or $2000 Surface computers; neither is going to happen. Neither version is going to be a basic, stripper model; MS is not going to be competing with Coby or Archos or any of the zillion android "crap-pads" in pharmacies and liquidation outlets. Neither are they going to be gold-plated status symbols for the Ferrari crowd. They will be priced in general iPad and ultrabook pricing range. They said so! They have to. $399-699 for the ARM-based Tablets and $699-999 for the ultrabook-class Pro model are both likely and reasonable. Me, I'm aiming for the x86 model so, unless one of the OEMs (Lenovo?) wows me with a cheaper WinTab, I'll likely pick up a Surface some time next spring, after they've been out a couple months and the market takes shape. I know what Microsoft is doing; I now want to see what their "partners" will do. (Besides bluster and whine.)

08-14-2012, 08:03 AM	#19
tereza18gr Member Posts: 13 Karma: 2574702 Join Date: Jul 2012 Device: nonne	Still confused, too I must say. I think I'll wait to see how it goes until I can tell whether it's a smart move

08-14-2012, 12:24 PM	#24
Dulin's Books Wizard Posts: 2,806 Karma: 13500000 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Portland, OR Device: Boox PB360 etc etc etc	Ahh i see from an Engadget article that the $199 price comes from anonymous sources that say that price was said by MS Execs at the recent TechReady15 conference. http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/14/m...t-surface-199/ That particular conference is for employees only. If Mr Wang from Acer heard it from one of those employees directly instead of the internet grapvine I wonder if that could be considered industrial espionage?

08-14-2012, 06:28 PM	#28
StoryEnthusiast K. C. Lee Posts: 584 Karma: 3652522 Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: New Zealand Device: Android phone	There's really not much we can do here. We'll have to wait until MS ships the product and then see for ourselves.

08-14-2012, 10:40 PM	#30
HansTWN Wizard Posts: 4,538 Karma: 264065402 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Taiwan Device: HP Touchpad, Sony Duo 13, Lumia 920, Kobo Aura HD	Intel based Surface tablets would, of course, offer much greater functionality than iPads or Android tablets. The question is how they measure up on usability, battery life, weight, and not heating up. If all that is working fine, then a higher price surely would be justified. Although it would be a smart move to price them slightly lower than iPads. As for Windows RT ARM versions, we really don't know enough to pass judgement. They do come with full fledged MS office versions, which definitely is a great plus.