‘There will be no more professional writers in the future’

[spindlegirl]

There are some times where unconventional grammar is worked in the story for context and I can understand that and it doesn't jump out at me as being "bad".

But I hate the lame cop out of certain kinds of clearly sloppy and lazy grammar being given some fancy name.

But about 15 years ago I (misguidedly) took a book out of the library that said it was in "Oprah's new book club". There was a scene which consisted of nearly six pages and I was still on the same SINGLE, unpunctuated sentence and I was getting a headache.

I wrote in the little e-mail group I was in how much I hated that, and it was horrible and how could the author even get published etc, and people "corrected" me by saying, "It's called 'stream of consciousness, meant to draw the reader in as if they were thinking their thoughts".

Sorry, sticking the cutesy new-age label didn't make it any less of a teeth-itch to read.

[DarkScribe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The gentleman who wrote that interesting article (and thank you for posting the link!) is clearly a professional who's doing things the right way; he stresses how absolutely essential it is to employ a good copy editor. The problem is that the overwhelming majority of independent authors' books have never gone near an editor - and it shows.

Professional? His article is appalling from a professional standard - full of very basic errors. He can't write - he couldn't survive without the services of a very good editor. His suggested procedure is not the norm for most publishing houses in my experience. Certainly not in any that I have worked for.

His writing standard is High School drop-out. (One who didn't pay very much attention during English before he dropped out.) He might or might not be a good story-teller, I assume that as he has been published, he has skill in that area.

His suggested $10,000 dollar edit would be the sort of money that a publisher might spend on well established author who requires for a full structural edit - effectively a re-write. It would not be remotely close to the fee for a simple copy edit.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by spindlegirl

I don't know.

I was only speaking from my perspective of choosing books, both self-published and traditionally published.

The ratio of good to bad SEEMS to be the same to me because the experience of "some good, some bad" is pretty much the same, no matter where I get books.

So if the experience is going to be the same, and it costs less, and is DRM free, then I will seek out smashwords and other customer-friendly e-book sellers.

Are you talking about books that have been recommended to you? I really do not believe that the ratio could be the same if you choose the books randomly.

[spindlegirl]

Originally Posted by tompe

Are you talking about books that have been recommended to you? I really do not believe that the ratio could be the same if you choose the books randomly.

Both. My opinion really is just a casual opinion based on reflection of my own personal experience, and not meant to reflect any hard facts or scientific data of any kind.

And yeah, sometimes people recommend books that they can't stop hugging and loan me their copy (print book) and I'll read it and just don't see what they see.

Everybody's experience about what they like is different. Mine is likely to be different from yours.

[spindlegirl]

Appending to my post #64 above, I may also be high on my recent discovery of Shayne Parkinson's series on Smashwords. The current July sale had me buying a whole historical fiction series for a grand total of $6, as well as Darcie Chan's novel several months back "The Mill River Recluse" for 99c, and I remember gushing to my husband that sometimes really good stuff isn't hard to find.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by Top100EbooksRank

These authors are doing all right self-publishing and get 65-70% royalties off the sale price. A few self-published millionaires among this list.

http://selfpublishingsuccessstories.blogspot.com/

The "200,000+ self-published ebooks sold" club:

Barbara Freethy - over 2 million ebooks sold (April 2012)
Amanda Hocking - 1,500,000 ebooks sold (December 2011)
John Locke- more than 1,100,000 eBooks sold in five months
Gemma Halliday - over 1 million self-published ebooks sold (March 2012)
Michael Prescott - more than 800,000 self-published ebooks sold (Dec 2011)
J.A. Konrath - more than 800,000 ebooks sold (April 2012)
Bella Andre - more than 700,000 books sold (May 2012)
Darcie Chan - 641,000 ebooks sold (May 2012)
Chris Culver - over 550,000 (Dec 2011)
Heather Killough-Walden - over 500,000 books sold (Dec 2011)
Selena Kitt - "With half a million ebooks sold in 2011 alone"
Stephen Leather - close to 500,000 books sold (Nov 2011)
CJ Lyons - almost 500,000 ebooks sold (Dec 2011)
J.R. Rain - more than 400,000 books sold (Sept 2011)
Bob Mayer - 347 sold in Jan to over 400,000 total sold by year's end (Dec 2011)
Rick Murcer - over 400,000 ebooks in one year (May 2012)
Tracey Garvis-Graves - sold more than 360,000 copies of her first novel
Tina Folsom - over 300,000 books sold (October 2011)
J Carson Black - more than 300,000 books sold (November 2011)
Terri Reid - 300,000 sold (May 2012)
Marie Force - 300,000+ sold (June 2012)
Liliana Hart - "my total sales for one year have now exceed 300,000 books (June 2012)
T.R. Ragan - 293,202 books sold (May 2012)
B.V. Larson - over 250,000 books sold (Dec 2011)
Kerry Wilkinson - more than 250,000 books sold (Feb 2012)
M. R. Mathias - "I'm up to nearly 250k (in just two years) (June 2012)
H.P. Mallory - more than 200,000 ebooks sold (July 2011)
Scott Nicholson - Just guessing, I'd put my worldwide sales total between 200k-250k
David Dalglish - more than 200,000 (May 2012)
Antoinette Stockenberg - total sales stand at 216,686 (June 2012) - private email
Cheryl Bolen - 200,000 sold (June 2012)
Jennifer Ashley/Ashley Gardner - 200,000 sold mark in early June 2012 - private email
Nick Spalding - "I'm lucky enough to be in the 200,000 + total sales club now (June 2012)"
Catherine Bybee - nearly 200,000 of the novel Wife By Wednesda (Jan 2012)
Jamie McGuire - hundreds of thousands of copies sold of Beautiful Disaster
Hugh Howey- crossed the 200,000 sold mark in June 2012

Personally, I see an enormous problem with self-published authors.
In the past, one could expect some kind of minimum quality - given the fact that the author found a publisher, had an editor and such.
Now, more and more often (I buy about 100 eBooks per year) I find myself struggling: The book description may sound interesting. But I've never heard of the author. Can I expect the same quality levels as 5 years ago? Or is the author an amateur and never would have made the publisher-hurdle?

I easily can see, how this flood of amateur authors could harm sales of professional writers...

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by DarkScribe

His suggested $10,000 dollar edit would be the sort of money that a publisher might spend on well established author who requires for a full structural edit - effectively a re-write. It would not be remotely close to the fee for a simple copy edit.

Upon reflection, I am inclined to believe that since he didn't have a proofreader, he accidentally added an extra zero.

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by DarkScribe

His suggested $10,000 dollar edit would be the sort of money that a publisher might spend on well established author who requires for a full structural edit - effectively a re-write. It would not be remotely close to the fee for a simple copy edit.

I've seen editors charge between $6-8 per page for copy editing. Dean is saying that they should charge $1.25/page but that seems too low. I suppose there is going to be variations perhaps for skill and experience. Would you risk your career using the cheapest and possibly an unskilled editor? I always thought the minimal qualification was B.A. English.

[BeccaPrice]

Originally Posted by mgmueller

Personally, I see an enormous problem with self-published authors.
In the past, one could expect some kind of minimum quality - given the fact that the author found a publisher, had an editor and such.
Now, more and more often (I buy about 100 eBooks per year) I find myself struggling: The book description may sound interesting. But I've never heard of the author. Can I expect the same quality levels as 5 years ago? Or is the author an amateur and never would have made the publisher-hurdle?

I easily can see, how this flood of amateur authors could harm sales of professional writers...

I don't buy many indy books. The few I did buy because they sounded interesting were unreadable for various reasons.

I now go strictly by recommendation from trusted source. I can recommend Abigail Padgett's mysteries, but then... I have a special interest that marches with hers. She's indy, and inexpensive, and on the whole very good... but I think that, with a good editor, she could be better. Stylistically, there were a few clunkers that really pulled me out of the book that a good editor would have spotted.

I've heard the bit that indy authors are taking readers away from "real" authors, but I'm not sure I believe it. What is happening is that people are finding quality in more places than just the Big 6.

[StoryEnthusiast]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Which is bad news for the reader, because it means that they get swamped by all the crap rather than it being filtered out by the publishers. Undoubtedly there's the rare self-published gem out there; the problem is finding it in the sea of garbage. That's why I prefer to buy from traditional publishers.

Right, but if I were to choose as a reader, I would rather do the filtering myself, because I'm the best one to know what my needs and preferences are.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by Fbone

I've seen editors charge between $6-8 per page for copy editing. Dean is saying that they should charge $1.25/page but that seems too low. I suppose there is going to be variations perhaps for skill and experience. Would you risk your career using the cheapest and possibly an unskilled editor? I always thought the minimal qualification was B.A. English.

You don't need a B.A. in English. What you need is a certain type of nitpicking, anal-retentive mind; the ability to spell and be grammatical; respect for the author's idiosyncrasies as long as they're not out-and-out wrong; a feel for language; the ability to take the story seriously on its own terms; broad-based general knowledge to spot factual errors; detachment from the material--that sort of thing.

I don't think it can be taught unless you have the right quirky kind of brain to start with.

[spindlegirl]

Originally Posted by StoryEnthusiast

Right, but if I were to choose as a reader, I would rather do the filtering myself, because I'm the best one to know what my needs and preferences are.

I agree with this. I guess this is why I don't mind downloading a book that looks good, and either thinking wow, or partway through, thinking, ugh.

I like being the one to decide.

There are a fair number of favorites I share with culture at large (classics such as Pride and Prejudice, Anne of Green Gables), but it's my own personal experience that either is drawn into a book or repulsed by it (or feel a book is ok but mediocre).

Each author is as unique as each reader. And certain stories resonate with me personally, well, because I am me.

[Kumabjorn]

Originally Posted by Catlady

You don't need a B.A. in English. What you need is a certain type of nitpicking, anal-retentive mind; the ability to spell and be grammatical; respect for the author's idiosyncrasies as long as they're not out-and-out wrong; a feel for language; the ability to take the story seriously on its own terms; broad-based general knowledge to spot factual errors; detachment from the material--that sort of thing.

I don't think it can be taught unless you have the right quirky kind of brain to start with.

The kind of mind that goes; "162 pages ago X did Y, it doesn't make sense that X is doing Z now, especially since there is no reason to change".

Happens to me all the time, but I'm too chicken to point it out, so perhaps some genuine courage is needed as well?

[tompe]

Originally Posted by StoryEnthusiast

Right, but if I were to choose as a reader, I would rather do the filtering myself, because I'm the best one to know what my needs and preferences are.

In preference should be books you do not currently know that you want to read. And I do not believe that trying to find them by doing all the filtering yourself will work. So I really do not think that it is best to do the filtering all by yourself.

[ficbot]

I'm with BeccaPrice on this. I went through a big indie books phase where I downloaded a ton of stuff, and much of it was underwhelming. I just don't have time. I find that, when I want an alternative to big pub these days, I am going back to the classics. They've had a hundred years to find the errors in Dickens