Blatantly political rant

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Forgive me, Ralph, but your words were no less charged... but I don't feel like arguing the issue from an extremist standpoint, which is where you're trying to place me, so I'll just move on.

It seems it's become downright impossible to discuss any subject in America, if part of the premise of that subject is that people should do something that they are not doing, or stop doing something that they have been doing. Obama's campaign is based on the idea of a need for change, but Americans don't really want change... they just want to do whatever they want, including the things they can't do now, and have it all cost them less. How that is accomplished is not important, as long as nothing is taken from them in the process. And anyone who openly suggests that something will be taken from them, is automatically classified as anything BUT an American.

This is why the most successful Presidential campaigns have "I'll lower your taxes" as their primary focus: Americans don't care about hybrids, terrorists, glass ceilings, smoking, paper-vs-plastic... they just want mo' money, and willfully ignore the details.

And in all the discussions I've had on this, or any other site, I've seen little to suggest that this essential point is anything but truth. (Nor that America is the only country with this affliction.)

How is America to grow, to improve, if its overarching motto is "Free to do what-the-h*ll-ever I want"? How can Americans learn, when they believe no one has a right to tell them anything, and they have no good reason to listen? How can new ideas be proposed, when those proposing are instantly labeled Fascist upon opening their mouths? How can Americans cooperate, when each of them believes that they, and only they, should be King of the Hill?

And if you disagree with this assessment, how do you explain the fact that Americans are expressly warned not to discuss religion and politics in sensitive forums? How is it that intelligent, passionate people on this site have not been able to work out solutions to things that concern them, like copyright issues, without coming to verbal blows?

I get tired, feeling like I can't venture an opinion on anything without the expectation that someone will inevitably come along and b***h-slap me for my trouble. (Funny thing about "freedom of speech": It's celebrated when you're saying something the majority wants to hear, and barely tolerated at all other times. ) I feel I am allowed to entertain... to be a class clown for others' enjoyment... but not to teach, not to advise, not to evangelicise. No one wants my opinion... they only want empty words to chuckle at. No wonder my most popular titles have been the most empty in terms of real-world content or lessons.

Makes you wonder why I'd willingly walk into a blatantly political rant... doesn't it?

So, anyway, I've said my blatantly political piece. Let the b***h-slapping commence.

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Forgive me, Ralph, but your words were no less charged... but I don't feel like arguing the issue from an extremist standpoint, which is where you're trying to place me, so I'll just move on.

It seems it's become downright impossible to discuss any subject in America, if part of the premise of that subject is that people should do something that they are not doing, or stop doing something that they have been doing. Obama's campaign is based on the idea of a need for change, but Americans don't really want change... they just want to do whatever they want, including the things they can't do now, and have it all cost them less. How that is accomplished is not important, as long as nothing is taken from them in the process. And anyone who openly suggests that something will be taken from them, is automatically classified as anything BUT an American.

This is why the most successful Presidential campaigns have "I'll lower your taxes" as their primary focus: Americans don't care about hybrids, terrorists, glass ceilings, smoking, paper-vs-plastic... they just want mo' money, and willfully ignore the details.

And in all the discussions I've had on this, or any other site, I've seen little to suggest that this essential point is anything but truth. (Nor that America is the only country with this affliction.)

How is America to grow, to improve, if its overarching motto is "Free to do what-the-h*ll-ever I want"? How can Americans learn, when they believe no one has a right to tell them anything, and they have no good reason to listen? How can new ideas be proposed, when those proposing are instantly labeled Fascist upon opening their mouths? How can Americans cooperate, when each of them believes that they, and only they, should be King of the Hill?

And if you disagree with this assessment, how do you explain the fact that Americans are expressly warned not to discuss religion and politics in sensitive forums? How is it that intelligent, passionate people on this site have not been able to work out solutions to things that concern them, like copyright issues, without coming to verbal blows?

I get tired, feeling like I can't venture an opinion on anything without the expectation that someone will inevitably come along and b***h-slap me for my trouble. (Funny thing about "freedom of speech": It's celebrated when you're saying something the majority wants to hear, and barely tolerated at all other times. ) I feel I am allowed to entertain... to be a class clown for others' enjoyment... but not to teach, not to advise, not to evangelicise. No one wants my opinion... they only want empty words to chuckle at. No wonder my most popular titles have been the most empty in terms of real-world content or lessons.

Makes you wonder why I'd willingly walk into a blatantly political rant... doesn't it?

So, anyway, I've said my blatantly political piece. Let the b***h-slapping commence.

no no no......No bitch slapping here. If you knowingly start a 'hot button' issue, you must be prepared to endure the heat it ensues. "Getting tired" is not an option. There will always be two sides to an issue, and both sides will feel they must prevail. So continue on your quest to inform/enlighten others of your beliefs. But don't expect smooth sailing.

[pshrynk]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

no no no......No bitch slapping here. If you knowingly start a 'hot button' issue, you must be prepared to endure the heat it ensues. "Getting tired" is not an option. There will always be two sides to an issue, and both sides will feel they must prevail. So continue on your quest to inform/enlighten others of your beliefs. But don't expect smooth sailing.

Well, actually, it was me who started the rant.

Politics and religion and lifestyle changes tend to degenerate in discussions. I feel that we are taking our cue too much from pundits on TV who seem to feel that, by yelling loudly enough, their points will be seen as having the greatest merit. Seeing this on TV leads us, then, to emulate this in our own lives.

Ralph and Steve probably do not have that much that they disagree with one another. For instance, neither would like to have another terrorist attack on US or any other citizens anywhere. Neither would like to live in poverty. Neither would want to see their children or relatives die of starvation.

The solutions to our current problems are there to be found. I believe that with all my heart. The first problem is to find ourselves in agreement on just what the problem is. can we do this while being upset with one another? No we cannot.

My original post was about being glad that we will be soon having a new administration. Any new one. I am happy about htat. Because the last two administrations have been about being divisive and nasty toward those who do not share your opinion. Both candidates now seem to be of the mind that we need to engage in dialogue, rather than in conquest of ideas. That is a good thing.

Steve and Ralph: I challenge the two of you to present the other's point of view in open forum and keep refining it until the other has been able to say, "Yess, that is what I am saying." If you do that and find that you need to fight, then have at it, fully understanding the opposition's point of view. You will find such an exercise to be informative. You can flip a coin to see who goes first.

[nekokami]

Originally Posted by pshrynk

Steve and Ralph: I challenge the two of you to present the other's point of view in open forum and keep refining it until the other has been able to say, "Yess, that is what I am saying." If you do that and find that you need to fight, then have at it, fully understanding the opposition's point of view. You will find such an exercise to be informative. You can flip a coin to see who goes first.

Good advice, pshrynk.

That'll be 150 karma. Pay the laddy at the door.

[desertgrandma]

""Well, actually, it was me who started the rant." (quote from pryshrnk)

Allow me to rephrase......."If you knowingly respond to a hot button issue....etc etc etc.........

[slayda]

Darn! Just when things were getting interesting the peace makers arrive! Let's all go hug a tree before we make toothpicks of it.

[BookishDreamer]

Originally Posted by slayda

Darn! Just when things were getting interesting the peace makers arrive! Let's all go hug a tree before we make toothpicks of it.

OUCH! I just got a splinter in my arm.

Dreamer

[Donnageddon]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

Well, actually, it was me who started the rant.

pshrynk, desertgrandma is trying to steal your thunder... you gonna just take it!

[desertgrandma]

I wasn't trying to steal his thunder......the first sentence was supposed t have quotation marks around it so I could respond to it....
will go back and edit.......

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by Donnageddon

pshrynk, desertgrandma is trying to steal your thunder... you gonna just take it!

edited.

[pshrynk]

Originally Posted by Donnageddon

pshrynk, desertgrandma is trying to steal your thunder... you gonna just take it!

Nice try.

[Donnageddon]

Now you steal my thunder, desertgrandma!! ROAR!

[desertgrandma]

Oh my gosh, I"m thinking SOME people on here just want to argue. (breaks into an old pepsi commercial song)
"I'd like to teach the world to sing, in perfect harmony............"

[Greg Anos]

Well, I just stuck what I thought was a good news item, on the thread, lacking a better place for it...

Phsrynk, what you have read is a microcosmism of the big picture politics you dislike.

In one corner, you have people who want to be left alone to live their lives, to succeed or fail, on their own terms. They may or may not be concerned about the big picture future, but either way they want their choices to be their own. If they want help, they'll ask for it.

In the other corner, you have people who are concerned about the big picture failings of the society, and want to make the world a better place. And the best way to do that is to use power (whether it be State, evangelical, incentivization, or any other) to get people to change. Whether they want to or not. Whether it's actual good for them in the long term (which at the time can only be a projection). These people don't value the viewpoints of the leave-me-alone types, and tend to look down their noses at them (they're too simple to understand the failing that need to be changed).

The current political situation has come about because enough of the leave-me-alone types have gotten fed up with having their lives twisted, turned, and doubled over by the consequences of the world-savers. It turns out that there are a lot of them, about as many as there are world-savers.

The world-savers have been used to a monopoly on control, which has been successfully challenged. The response is - Gasp...How dare they. Back in your place! And hence the gridlock, and each side digging in, and the nasty politics you've seen.

I obviously am in the leave-me-alone camp.....

[Donnageddon]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

Oh my gosh, I"m thinking SOME people on here just want to argue. (breaks into an old pepsi commercial song)
"I'd like to teach the world to sing, in perfect harmony............"

Now you steal CocaCola's song!!!! Have you no sense of decency!!

ROAR!!!