Secondhand ebooks?

[Iznogood]

Originally Posted by plib

Went out the window in about 1999.

Too bad. I really, really liked that principle, which opened up for common sense and sane judgement. I really, really think we should start a petition to bring it back.

Since common sense is a rare thing amongst the lawgivers, if not almost extinct, maybe it would be better to say bring it back alive...

[Iznogood]

Originally Posted by HarryT

You can't sell digitally-downloaded music.

Actually you can. Re-digi opens up for that.

EMI tries to stop them from doing so, and the case is not settled in court yet, but a judge has decided that re-sale of digital music is legal enough (yes, I know there are no such thing, but I don't know a better phrase) to allow re-digi to continue their work until the court has come to a verdict

[Kumabjorn]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Probably the only solution to this would be that you can't download, but that your book is in the cloud, accessible online only. Then a transfer could be verified.

With presently avaiable technology, yes. I was pinning my hope to some future development. Something not available today. Twenty years ago I couldn't fathom being able to carry around a lightweight tablet with a screen looking like paper and being able to instantly purchase downloadable books from an entirely different country. Technology has enabled me to do that, perhaps twenty years from now technology will enable us to treat eBooks the way we treat physical books?

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by Kumabjorn

With presently avaiable technology, yes. I was pinning my hope to some future development. Something not available today. Twenty years ago I couldn't fathom being able to carry around a lightweight tablet with a screen looking like paper and being able to instantly purchase downloadable books from an entirely different country. Technology has enabled me to do that, perhaps twenty years from now technology will enable us to treat eBooks the way we treat physical books?

As the separate discussions about expansion slots and ever shrinking memory on new devices show, the cloud is exactly where they want everything to be. Where we don't have full control over our data. So I don't see your dream coming true, since the powers that be don't want it to happen.

[Rob Lister]

Originally Posted by Lynx-lynx

Agree with you, it is up to the Ebook sellers to provide 'remove from library' or 'delete from account' options.

interestingly, B&N does.

[danskmacabre]

This article talks about software distributors and how they MUST provide a facility to sell on software/games etc.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/07...e-transfers-m/

It reads as pretty clear cut to me.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by Miss

Okay, I know there technically isn't any such thing. But say someone purchased an ebook, read it, and then wasn't planning to again. Would it be legal to send it to another person and then delete all your own copies and backups of it? Are such things done at all?

Enlighten me, please.

The difference between buying a pbook and an ebook is that you don't really buy the ebook, you buy a license. According to the license agreement it isn't transferable.

[danskmacabre]

For those who are interested, here's a link to the actual EU ruling about reselling software you have purchased.
http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/d...cp120094en.pdf

I realise ebooks are not software, but when you buy software, you're buying the right to use it as well, so it's not a huge step away how ebook licensing works.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by danskmacabre

I realise ebooks are not software, but when you buy software, you're buying the right to use it as well, so it's not a huge step away how ebook licensing works.

I think ebooks are classified as software with respect to the VAT rules.

[Harper Kingsley]

Idk, a video game seems very different from a book to me. With a game, you have hours and hours of play time invested, while with a book I can finish 400 pages in about two hours and be done with it.

I think that if you're opening up the possibility of reselling ebooks, you're looking at prices going up. Because why would anyone sell their book at any kind of reasonable price if someone's just going to turn around and resell it when they're done, leaving you with no profit? And there's tons of people that would see it as an opportunity to make money, because "you're only selling a copy. There's an infinite number of the book still there, so what's the problem?"

Giving an ebook away to someone else is still pretty shaky ground, because the author's not being compensated, but I would think a person-to-person transfer wouldn't be as big of a deal as spreading a book out across the Internet. You could get in trouble if you got busted for something else and they seized your computer and all digital devices, in which case illegal distribution of books could be seen as a sign of your character et al, which could give you more time in the pokey.

[plib]

Originally Posted by Harper Kingsley

Giving an ebook away to someone else is still pretty shaky ground, because the author's not being compensated,

Damn, am I in trouble! All those old and outgrown clothes donated to charity, the sofa set passed on to a friend's rec room, the phones lent to visitors, the books, DVDs, CDs lent or given to friends. And I never thought to call up the clothing or furniture manufacturer, the phone company, the bookstore and BestBuy to ask how much I should be paying them! They didn't get any compensation at all, what was I thinking?

It's truly amazing how much credence seriously stupid ideas can gain if you just repeat them often enough.

[danskmacabre]

@ Harper Kingsley I've given away 100s of pbooks over the years wayyy before ebooks were around?
Was I somehow not compensating the author because of that?
I didn't hear anyone complaining when I gave pbooks away?

[plib]

Originally Posted by Rob Lister

interestingly, B&N does.

So far that makes it Amazon, Kobo, B&N and Smashwords where you can delete a book you've given away.

Yet another definitive statement in need of amendment.

[Harper Kingsley]

Originally Posted by plib

Damn, am I in trouble! All those old and outgrown clothes donated to charity, the sofa set passed on to a friend's rec room, the phones lent to visitors, the books, DVDs, CDs lent or given to friends. And I never thought to call up the clothing or furniture manufacturer, the phone company, the bookstore and BestBuy to ask how much I should be paying them! They didn't get any compensation at all, what was I thinking?

It's truly amazing how much credence seriously stupid ideas can gain if you just repeat them often enough.

Wow, that's mean. Perhaps I misspoke, but that's no reason to call me stupid

My point is that ebooks usually cost a lot less than print books due to their rather ephemeral nature. So it would be wrong to resell one, especially considering they don't receive the wear and tear of print books. Giving the ebook secondhand to someone else wouldn't be as bad, especially if you deleted all copies and knew the other person wouldn't just turn around and hand it off to all their friends. But it's very doubtful that there will ever be a secondhand store for used ebooks because they never get "used." They're always "like new."

[Miss]

Fascinating discussion.

Someone mentioned there would be a need to strip DRM prior to transfer. I can see perhaps that would be needed if transferring remotely, but I don't see how that would be necessary if I was giving someone a book straight from my computer. Shouldn't it work the same as sending an ebook from my computer to ereader, except instead it would send the book to theirs that I would have plugged in? Just like handing over a pbook.

Christionbooks also provide a "delete" option from the library. Hitting the button you get:

By pressing Delete eBook, you will no longer be able to access this eBook without purchasing another copy.
Are you sure you want to delete this eBook?"

And then:

We want to check one more time that you want to delete this eBook. ...

...then they finally delete it.

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

The difference between buying a pbook and an ebook is that you don't really buy the ebook, you buy a license. According to the license agreement it isn't transferable.

I'd be interested to hear others' input on this. It's a different way of looking at things than I was. I notice in the fine print of some (not all) DRMed books it gives restrictions that would literally mean it cannot be used on any ereader that connects to a computer for its material:

"No part of this publication may be reproduced, stored in a retreival system...by any means - electronic...or otherwise - without the prior written permission of the publisher."

Except that the only way for me to use my ereader is to first get the book on my comptuer and then place a copy of it onto my ereader. Is this fine print what you're referring to as a "license agreement"? Because I thought those were always agreed to *prior* to obtaining the material.