Petition to reduce US copyright to 28 years

[ApK]

Originally Posted by DarkScribe

Try this: http://sdrv.ms/O0uWbZ

For some reason the link is not opening in MR.

Can you post a REAL link? I'm not clicking on an obfuscated short link, and it's against the rules here. It doesn't have to open in the forum, though I can't imagine why it wouldn't.. I'm happy to cut and paste.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by DarkScribe

Smooshed?

It's a northeastern US thing, I guess.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/smoosh

[DarkScribe]

Originally Posted by ApK

What the heck are you talking about? We're TELLING you it's different in different countries, and a what's different in this case copyright status.
There's also the issue geo-restriction based on publishing rights in some cases, but that's not the deal with 1984.

I am not talking about buying locally in different countries, I am talking about downloading it from the Amazon Kindle store in the US. I spend my time between Australia, The UK and the US. It doesn't matter where I am the Amazon prices are the same.

[DarkScribe]

Originally Posted by ApK

Can you post a REAL link? I'm not clicking on an obfuscated short link, and it's against the rules here. It doesn't have to open in the forum, though I can't imagine why it wouldn't.. I'm happy to cut and paste.

No. That link is a Microsoft Hotmail/Live link and it works. If it makes you nervous, I can't help you.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by DarkScribe

Squat? If you think that Amazon deals with all countries the same way you are naive. You will see constant headlines in this country about the fact that Amazon, Apple, Microsoft, Adobe, etc. etc., charge a lot more for sales here than for local US sales. It has a lot more than "squat" to do with it. I gave you a link to an Amazon price downloaded in the past twenty minutes.

You don't seem to be understand what people are telling you.

Amazon will show YOU a cheap copy of 1984 because Amazon knows that you are in Australia, and the book is in the public domain there.

Amazon will NOT show someone in the US or the EU the book that you're seeing because for us the book is still protected by copyright.

[DarkScribe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

But Amazon filters the list of ebooks it shows you according to your location. It can sell you a 99c copy of the book, but not someone in the US or EU.

There is no 99c version of "Nineteen Eighty-four" legally available in the US or the EU, believe me.

OK, possibly you are correct, but how the hell it can decide on a demographic for me when I post through a hosted US server (I do it to get better pricing) is something that I can't work out. I use a credit card issued by a New York, bank, and my Amazon delivery address in in LA.

[DarkScribe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

You don't seem to be understand what people are telling you.

Amazon will show YOU a cheap copy of 1984 because Amazon knows that you are in Australia, and the book is in the public domain there.

Amazon will NOT show someone in the US or the EU the book that you're seeing because for us the book is still protected by copyright.

I understand fully what people are trying to say, but if they don't know that I am Australian based - how do they know what to show me? By the way, it is out of copyright in a number of different countries, not just Australia. Canada for instance.

[HarryT]

Possibly your VPN doesn't work as well as you think, because it certainly appears as if Amazon knows you're in Australia.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by DarkScribe

No. That link is a Microsoft Hotmail/Live link and it works. If it makes you nervous, I can't help you.

Here's the full link.

Anyway, as Harry and the rest of us are telling you, that's a picture of what you can buy where you are. Unless you're using a vpn to spoof your physical location, and also a US Amazon account with US billing method and address, then Amazon knows where you are, with pretty good accuracy, and presents to you accordingly.

Here's what I see from the US:

[DarkScribe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Possibly your VPN doesn't work as well as you think, because it certainly appears as if Amazon knows you're in Australia.

I am not currently in Australia, I am Australian based but travel a lot. I was living in New York when I set my account with Amazon up. Are you suggesting that they check immigration for customer movements? If anything they might think that I am in Quebec as I had a few things from Amazon delivered there last year. Normally I have them delivered to LA and have a relative resend them to wherever I happen to be.

My understanding with regard to amazon is that if you have a US delivery address and a US credit card, they don't have any further interest in you. There are a number of small businesses set up purely to enable Australians to buy in the US without being penalised cost wise. They arrange a local bank account - debit card - for you and then buy and ship on your behalf. They advertise in various Australian computer and technology magazines.

Regardless of Amazon's maneuvering, the issue is that shorter copyright is not going to make much real difference to people in the US. The Gutenberg Project will send you 1984 and a few thousand other similar books and leave it up to you decide whether you are legally entitled to them. They just charge shipping for a few DVDs. Would you like to argue about that now?

[ApK]

Originally Posted by DarkScribe

The Gutenberg Project will send you 1984 and a few thousand other similar books and leave it up to you decide whether you are legally entitled to them. They just charge shipping for a few DVDs. Would you like to argue about that now?

No argument, it's simply not legal, and we're discussing LEGAL availability.
I can get if for free if we're going to ignore copyright laws. I can get the latest Stephen King for free too. So what?

The simple fact is, it's cheaper where it's out of copyright than where it's still under copyright.
It's not 'maneuvering.' It's the reality of the costs of licensing.

ApK

[plib]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Kali, who made copyright? The public, through it's government. It granted all copyrights. It set the terms and conditions of copyrights. To claim the public aren't stakeholders is ridiculous. They set the rules!

You state that -

"Public domain is not ownership. No one owns or controls a work that's in public domain. The public does not pay anyone when a work goes into public domain."

You're looking through the wrong end of the telescope. The public domain is the natural state of creation. Copyright exists as an artificial ownership, a limited monopoly, to be precise, granted to encourage the creation of new works. That creation was premised upon the good of the public, not the good of the creators. The public receives it's benefit at the end of the copyright period. The creator receives the economic benefit from the limited monopoly, that is his/her encouragement.

That's the way it's always been since modern Western copyright. See The Statue of Anne (1714), The U.S. Constitution, or read McCauley (1842).

In the end, though, you can make any law you want. People will only follow them if they are perceived to be fair and just. Otherwise, they will break them. Often privately, but they will break them. And copyright, as it is currently envisioned, fails the fair and just perception.

Agreed. 100% (I'm just annoyed I don't have your eloquence).

[DarkScribe]

Interesting, I just did an Amazon search through a French server and got completely different results - though still in English. No 99¢ copy. Rechecking through the New York server gave me the 99¢ again. Using an English server (Northern UK) gives me the prices in Euros - and again no cheap copy. Going through the New York server and logging into my Amazon account gives me the 99¢. Logging in with my wife's account - still on the US server, removes the 99¢ offering from the search. I have a feeling that Amazon thinks that I am Canadian. They do keep suggesting French (Québécois ) novels for me.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by DarkScribe

My understanding with regard to amazon is that if you have a US delivery address and a US credit card, they don't have any further interest in you.

No, they check your IP address too. If they think that you're fibbing, they'll send you an e-mail asking you to send them proof that you really are in the US. Lots of people have received such e-mails, as the Kindle forum here will testify.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by DarkScribe

Interesting, I just did an Amazon search through a French server and got completely different results - though still in English. No 99¢ copy. Rechecking through the New York server gave me the 99¢ again. Using an English server (Northern UK) gives me the prices in Euros - and again no cheap copy. Going through the New York server and logging into my Amazon account gives me the 99¢. Logging in with my wife's account - still on the US server, removes the 99¢ offering from the search. I have a feeling that Amazon thinks that I am Canadian. They do keep suggesting French (Québécois ) novels for me.

That would certainly explain it, yes.