"fan fiction "......

[bill_mchale]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

You are not making any sense. You say that I'm taking "a rather narrow view" but then you explain this position "in the broadest sense". Are you not aware that narrow and broad are antonyms (opposite in meaning)?

I am quite well aware of that. However, taking a narrow view of originality means taking an overly broad view of the works involved. I.e., any story about a boy meeting a girl is "unoriginal" because thousands if not millions of stories with this basic plot have been written.

--
Bill

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

A lot of Harry Potter fanfic deals with teen pregnancy and the problematic nature of spells as fix-it tools; those, again, are not easily confused for the original, seem to increase market for the source material, and comment on Rowling's worldbuilding, in which even very immature characters have access to a great deal of power, without the consequences we'd expect.

I actually like the Hermione/Draco pairing. Not all the fanfic about them, but the ones with a high word count are generally good. They have a point in that Hermione has more in common with Draco than she does with Ron. I don't think that they harm the books. They don't make me think "well, I would have bought another copy of the books to read them again, but now that I found fanfic I won't".

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by bill_mchale

I am quite well aware of that. However, taking a narrow view of originality means taking an overly broad view of the works involved. I.e., any story about a boy meeting a girl is "unoriginal" because thousands if not millions of stories with this basic plot have been written.

--
Bill

I wouldn't call this a broad view of the works involved, but that is just semantics.

Even past the boy meets girl setting, the other elements of the story have been used in most configurations. One is rich/both are rich/both are poor, only one is in love/both are in love/they both hate each other until the last chapter, etc.

[bill_mchale]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

I wouldn't call this a broad view of the works involved, but that is just semantics.

Even past the boy meets girl setting, the other elements of the story have been used in most configurations. One is rich/both are rich/both are poor, only one is in love/both are in love/they both hate each other until the last chapter, etc.

But even if that is all true, it doesn't mean the particular story can't be original. Ender's Game (for example) used one of the oldest tropes in Scifi, but the story that was told, and how it was told was highly original.

--
Bill

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by QuantumIguana

No reasonable person would confuse a Star Trek novel with a Star Trek fanfic.

Not really.
STAR TREK novels come from dozens of different writers and some have been released as free promos. (To say nothing of being pirated all over.)

With the wide variety of casts, eras, settings and the reboot, to say nothing of the convouted canon, it is one of the easiest mythologies to slip in a fake.

STAR WARS is another such mythology that lends itself to confusion.

Both are popular with younger readers who will grab everything they can find and would find the fanfic a substitute for the commercial product.

Don't forget the second part: "substitute for".

The Brito counterfeits, for one, weren't duplicates of his actual designs. They were actually originals done in his own personal style so even if not sold as "Brito originals" they they were sold as Brito-style and were found to devalue his brand.

Just because somebody doesn't intend to confuse doesn't mean it can't happen.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by bill_mchale

But even if that is all true, it doesn't mean the particular story can't be original. Ender's Game (for example) used one of the oldest tropes in Scifi, but the story that was told, and how it was told was highly original.

And if you narrow originality to how a story is told all fanfic is original.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Writing a new story using someone else's characters is just plain and simple copyright infringement, unless you're doing it with the copyright holder's permission, or the characters are in the public domain.

The implications of that are going to get really interesting when the public domain effectively no longer exists. I wonder if Disney would be singing another tune about copyright if all of their derivative works were ruled as infringement.

[khalleron]

I've been mulling over this during the holiday, and it occurred to me that if Americans let 'it's illegal' determine our actions, we'd still be British.

They've even still got a MONARCH. In the 21st century. What's up with that, anyway?

Most of us would rather ask 'should this be illegal?' rather than 'is this illegal?'. And as to fanfiction, which doesn't harm anyone and usually even helps the works it's derived from, the answer is a resounding 'NO!'

But if legalism is the way you think, then there's no argument between us - neither of us is going to convince the other.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by khalleron

Most of us would rather ask 'should this be illegal?' rather than 'is this illegal?'. And as to fanfiction, which doesn't harm anyone and usually even helps the works it's derived from, the answer is a resounding 'NO!'

It seems to come down to what your feelings are regarding the purpose of copyright. To serve society by promoting the arts, or to serve corporations by granting control/profit.

It's difficult to see how declaring fanfiction as infringement has anything to do with promoting the arts. Sounds like suppressing art, doesn't it?

[crich70]

Fan fiction has a very long history if you stop and think about it. The tales of Robin Hood for example were written over an extended period of time rather than all at once and what of Malory's La Morte De Arthur? He used earlier material from all over when writing the book. I can imagine some herdsman in ancient Greece spinning a tale of how Hercules fought this monster or went on this quest etc. as well. People have been coming up with their own stories using well known characters since there have been storytellers.

[WritePR]

Originally Posted by applesauce

Fan fiction writers and readers are creatures I tend to tie in the same bag as those who larp. I then keep my back to the wall as I get away from as fast as possible. Very very scary obsessive people who need to relate to the real world in a very urgent fashion.

I am even reluctant to read another set of swords and dragon books once I finish the game of thrones ones as I think that may be slipping to close to that scary group

applesauce

Wow, you're really into rude stereotypes aren't you? Like others have said there is good fan fic and bad fan fic. Some fandoms encourage it (like Star Trek-they even have a yearly fan fic writing contest and the winners are published in a special anthology) and some, like Star Wars and Anne Rice's novels, are viciously against it.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

It seems to come down to what your feelings are regarding the purpose of copyright. To serve society by promoting the arts, or to serve corporations by granting control/profit.

It's difficult to see how declaring fanfiction as infringement has anything to do with promoting the arts. Sounds like suppressing art, doesn't it?

Copyright is a limited monopoly granted by the state to the copyright holder. "Monopoly" is the important word. Fan Fiction is a violation of that monopoly.

[MikeB1972]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

I wouldn't call this a broad view of the works involved, but that is just semantics.

Even past the boy meets girl setting, the other elements of the story have been used in most configurations. One is rich/both are rich/both are poor, only one is in love/both are in love/they both hate each other until the last chapter, etc.

Not to mention girl meets frog.

And that old classic - Prince gets so drunk that he can only recognize woman by shoe size.

[bill_mchale]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Copyright is a limited monopoly granted by the state to the copyright holder. "Monopoly" is the important word. Fan Fiction is a violation of that monopoly.

Well, "limited" is a key word as well. I can't comment for Great Britain or other countries, but for the United States, the question that really is at stake is whether or not fan fiction (that is not used for any sort of financial gain) qualifies as fair use. In the United States, there really is only one way to find out, and that is for some author of fan fiction to be sued and for the courts to ultimately weigh in on the matter.

--
Bill

[HarryT]

Financial gain is not a consideration in deciding whether or not a use infringes copyright. It can be a factor in awarding compensation, but not in determining whether or not the offence has taken place.