Dotcom raid illegal

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

People - like you - who assert that people should be able to steal other people's work have their moral bearings.

What are you talking about?

[khalleron]

We can argue it forever, but every civilized country is based on the idea that the law keepers must be lawful or civilization collapses.

That's why fascism didn't last, although there are certainly a number of people who claim to want to bring it back. But they wouldn't like it if they were on the other end of it.

A civilized legal system is worth preserving, even at the cost of letting a few lawbreakers go. Anyone who thinks differently is just plain stupid.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by khalleron

Anyone who thinks differently is just plain stupid.

[Lynx-lynx]

Bloomberg reports today:

'Megaupload Judge Defers Decision on Seizing Users’ Data

A U.S. judge deferred a decision on whether the government should set up a way for Megaupload.com users to regain access to millions of gigabytes of data the company managed before being shut down as part of a criminal copyright-violation case.

U.S. District Judge Liam O’Grady in Alexandria, Virginia, today heard arguments over a request by a Megaupload user, Kyle Goodwin, that the government be ordered to create a mechanism allowing those who used the website for legitimate purposes to retrieve their data.

“We’ll look at it a little further and issue an order shortly,” O’Grady said at the end of the 1 1/2-hour hearing. '

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...sers-data.html

[xg4bx]

Originally Posted by khalleron

We can argue it forever, but every civilized country is based on the idea that the law keepers must be lawful or civilization collapses.

That's why fascism didn't last, although there are certainly a number of people who claim to want to bring it back. But they wouldn't like it if they were on the other end of it.

A civilized legal system is worth preserving, even at the cost of letting a few lawbreakers go. Anyone who thinks differently is just plain stupid.

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." Thomas Jefferson


if some books/movies/games being "stolen" are the price for having a free and open internet, then let the piracy commence. sorry, getting rid of piracy isn't worth the price of a government stamping down on freedom and tracking users internet activity, illegal warrants or cable companies throttling internet speed at the behest of hollywood.

[MikeOxlittle]

Originally Posted by khalleron

A civilized legal system is worth preserving, even at the cost of letting a few lawbreakers go. Anyone who thinks differently is just plain stupid.

What legal system can be considered civilized when rapists/child molesters might serve a shorter prison term than this guy.

The U.S would be a better place if it adopted a modified version of Singapores legal system.

[teh603]

Originally Posted by MikeOxlittle

What legal system can be considered civilized when rapists/child molesters might serve a shorter prison term than this guy.

The U.S would be a better place if it adopted a modified version of Singapores legal system.

That would require a serious overhaul of the civil legal system, particularly the part about "anyone can sue for anything." After all, that's why prisons are so posh and we can't behead serial rapists anymore; their families complained that the conditions were too bad and sued.

Imagine that, someone deciding that conditions in a prison were too bad?

[JeremyR]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

Wow, the arrogance and entitlement of this post are just shocking.

Piracy is illegal and harms people who actually produce content. Like Harry.

People - like you - who assert that people should be able to steal other people's work have their moral bearings. Particularly when they try to claim the moral ground themselves.

Some things have to be set aside for the greater good. I mean, did you invent fire? But I'm sure you use it sometimes. But you aren't compensating the person (or the family of) the person that created fire.

Copyright shouldn't be any different than patents (and it wasn't, really). Look at Dracula - look at how much it has added to society, in terms of culture and producing jobs and such.

And none of that would ever have happened under current copyright law. Wouldn't be touchable until 1987.

And it's very debatable that piracy hurts authors in the first place. If anything, simply not being known is the worst thing an author faces. An author with a fanbase will make money.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by JeremyR

Some things have to be set aside for the greater good. I mean, did you invent fire? But I'm sure you use it sometimes. But you aren't compensating the person (or the family of) the person that created fire.

I agree. Just as I am not allowed to drive through town at 100 miles an hour even though my car is easily capable of doing it we do have to accept some minor restrictions for the greater good of protecting copyright. Actually, you are already freely giving up all your information and control to Google, Apple, and others. Just for the sake of a getting a few freebies. (In another thread people argue that they need virtually no local storage, the cloud is fine. When you are putting everything in the cloud you are basically an open book). So why not use that same information to protect other people's rights for the good of society.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by xg4bx

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." Thomas Jefferson

In context, this quote is about the rights of states, not of individuals.

Originally Posted by xg4bx

if some books/movies/games being "stolen" are the price for having a free and open internet, then let the piracy commence.

Having some books/movies/games, to use your scare quotes, "stolen" is inevitable in the digital world, just like in stores. One price for living in human society is that some people will manage to take other people's property, intellectual and otherwise, without their permission. I want to mildly discourage that, and we can discourage it without turning our world into an unfree hell-hole like, oh, say, Jefferson's plantation.

Check out how it works in France, where a free and open internet coexists with a more serious anti-piracy regime (warnings, with eventual possibility of service cutoff) than in most other countries. There was talk of the new socialist government repealing the anti-piracy law, but based on details found here, they are keeping it. This is about what seems in store for the US, and I don't see where my freedom of expression, or freedom to read, will be harmed.

[xg4bx]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

In context, this quote is about the rights of states, not of individuals.


Having some books/movies/games, to use your scare quotes, "stolen" is inevitable in the digital world, just like in stores. One price for living in human society is that some people will manage to take other people's property, intellectual and otherwise, without their permission. I want to mildly discourage that, and we can discourage it without turning our world into an unfree hell-hole like, oh, say, Jefferson's plantation.

Check out how it works in France, where a free and open internet coexists with a more serious anti-piracy regime (warnings, with eventual possibility of service cutoff) than in most other countries. There was talk of the new socialist government repealing the anti-piracy law, but based on details found here, they are keeping it. This is about what seems in store for the US, and I don't see where my freedom of expression, or freedom to read, will be harmed.

thats awesome for france. but we have a government that thinks spy drones over our houses and everything we do online being run through the n.s.a. are swell ideas. i refuse to give this government another bloody inch. there is nothing "free and open" left here besides the internet and if that means some author somewhere might lose a few dollars, so be it because i think its a fair trade. my mind isn't going to change on this one.

[plib]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

There was talk of the new socialist government repealing the anti-piracy law, but based on details found here, they are keeping it.

That's a waffle piece, that says absolutely nothing at all definitive.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

Of course it is. Harry is just a bit of a nut when it comes to copyright. He blames piracy for his failure to make a living as an author/programmer, and has a significantly biased view of copyright law as a result.

I feel sorry for him, but don't take most of what he says on here very seriously.

Please don't talk such absolute nonsense. I make a very nice living as a programmer, thank you very much, but I certainly make no apology for hating with a passion the sort of people who try to take that living away from me by operating (and using) pirate sites.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

What a lot of crap. I make a very nice living as a programmer, thank you very much, but I certainly make no apology for hating with a passion the thieving bastards who try to take that living away from me.

Isn't "bastards" a kind of emotive word? I mean since you do complain on emotive language use.

[HarryT]

You're right, and you quoted me before I edited it to something more "moderate" . It's occasionally difficult to be "detached" from a subject when one has a personal involvement.