The Big Reasons Indie Authors Aren't Taken Seriously - Page 5

ProfCrash · 06-25-2012, 05:04 PM

I have posted this before and been yelled at for it but what the hey...

There are too many books being published for me, and I assume others, to sift through and find the gems. The BPH produce some real crap but it is easier to find the good stuff. For one, I can count on the work being proofread and edited. It might not be well done all the time but I know some attempt has been made. I cannot say that about independent authors. I have tried downloading samples and have been disappointed by the vast majority.

I would love to read gret works by Indies but I don't know how to find them easily. It would be nice if there was some way of sifting through the Indies to find the good stuff but so far that has not been developed. Until that happens or the word gets out to hire proofreaders and editors so that the vast majority of the books are in good shape when published it is going to be hard for folks to take Indies seriously.

Which is a shame because I know there are some good ones out there. But if it is easy to find so much crap in the few selective books the BPH publish you can only imagine what the perception, rightly or wrongly, is for authors who have not been picked up by the BPH.

Ready for the flame throwers.

covingtoncat73 · 06-25-2012, 05:05 PM

Yeah, I haven't bought too many indies, maybe about 10, but I have been burned more than pleased. I do get tired of sifting through all the drek that has been infecting Amazon but, in all fairness, I have to say that I have certainly been burned by tradionally published books as well and at greater cost.

It is a shame you can't trust the ratings, either on Amazon, Smashwords, or Kobo but you can't. The difference with books that are traditionally published, have big name authors, etc. is that the attract the attention of professional reviewers. When I go to Amazon, I'll look for a review by Library Journal or the like.

A trick that can work for any book is to look at the 1 and 2 star reviews, really read them, even if there are only 1 or 2. You can usually tell if it is legitimate or just a crank/someone who doesn't like that genre, etc.

I will say that Amazon's reccomendations used to work a lot better.

rhadin · 06-26-2012, 08:07 AM

I "buy" mostly indie fiction. I refuse to pay the prices asked by traditional publishers for books that I have to liberate. Consequently, of the 1100+ ebooks I have bought, more than 1000 are indies.

Yes, a lot of indie books are junk -- poorly written, even more poorly edited and proofread (I just commented in response to one author's promotion of his new book that on page 2 of the sample, within a single sentence a child is born a boy and dies a girl, the transformation and death occurring within a few days of birth) -- but there are a lot of 4- and 5-star indie books available.

(When I say 4-and 5-star, I mean that is how I would rate them, not necessarily how others have rated them or will rate them.)

My method of finding these books is of necessity cumbersome and which is why the first book I read written by an unknown author I have to obtain for free. Basically, I download the free ebooks whose descriptions seem interesting or that are recommended here on MR. They get added to my TBR pile. When I start a book, I can tell within a few pages, certainly no more than 20 pages, whether it is a book worth reading. I would say that for every 5 or 6 books I start, only 1 is worth reading -- the others get deleted.

Books are deleted for various reasons. I have little tolerance for misuse of homonyms in the absence of an otherwise exceedingly well-crafted story. With a well-crafted story, I'll try to tolerate the use of where for were, seen for scene, and the like, but even then i have limits. If a story is poorly crafted, it quickly gets the axe, as do stories where the dialogue is so amateurish I wonder if the author thinks his/her readers have nothing more than a third grade education.

Yet with all this, there are some fantastic finds and when I find an author who has it altogether, I will immediately return to the Internet and buy their other books (in one instance, I read one free ebook and bought the author's 27 other ebooks). I've mentioned some of these authors before, but I'll mention them again: Richard Tuttle, Vicki Tyley, Tracy Falbe, L.J. Sellers, Shayne Parkinson, Michael Hicks, to name a few that I have found and whose subsequent books I have purchased. Finding these authors makes the cumbersome process worthwhile.

ProfCrash · 06-26-2012, 09:32 AM

Is there a topic here for readers to recommend Indie authors/books? Something where authors don't promote their works but readers give a review but discussion is limited so that it would be easier for a poster toscan through old posts? Maybe even something like a topic for different genres?

Admittedly I don't check the recommendation board all that frequently so there could be something and I missed it. If not, this could help the authors. I would be more willing to trust regular posters, here and at kindle boards, than Amazon reviews.

Steven Lyle Jordan · 06-26-2012, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kumabjorn

I would imagine that there are indie authors who like their independence, who doesn't want editors hanging over them with deadlines, or who doesn't enjoy book signings, speeches, university lectures, all the extraneous stuff that comes with being an established author. People who want to remain independent, maybe even reasonably anonymous.

Probably (I would decline, if they asked)... but do we hear about them? No; we hear about the indie authors who accept 7-figure deals from major publishers. Again, Big Pub marketing is stacked against indies, even if it only drowns them out.

musicman2523 · 06-26-2012, 12:06 PM

For the past year I've read ONLY Indie books...............yeah, there are mistakes in most of them. But you know what? There are a lot of really good stories out there. I agree that they should hire and expert. the to, too two problems would go away. Some of these books.............actually quite a few of them, could be best sellers. The stories are that good.

Fluribus · 06-28-2012, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

Probably (I would decline, if they asked)... but do we hear about them? No; we hear about the indie authors who accept 7-figure deals from major publishers. Again, Big Pub marketing is stacked against indies, even if it only drowns them out.

There seems to be an ingrained fascination with the rich and famous. This is a societal issue that goes well beyond corporate marketing. That indie author is now rich and famous, thus attracting public interest.

I don't give a damn about famous people and would strongly prefer not to be famous. I don't seem to be in the majority.

If anyone would like to slip me a few billion dollars, however, I will accept with grace and humility.

BWinmill · 06-28-2012, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluribus

I don't give a damn about famous people and would strongly prefer not to be famous. I don't seem to be in the majority.

Perhaps you are in the majority. Why would a person who wants to lead a life of quiet obscurity want to become famous as the person who doesn't want to be famous?

Quote:

If anyone would like to slip me a few billion dollars, however, I will accept with grace and humility.

I would be happy with a million dollars. Managed wisely, through modest spending and investments that keep pace with inflation (and taxes!), I could live for many decades without a worry.

Elfwreck · 06-28-2012, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

Is there a topic here for readers to recommend Indie authors/books? Something where authors don't promote their works but readers give a review but discussion is limited so that it would be easier for a poster to scan through old posts? Maybe even something like a topic for different genres?

The Recommendations forum would be fine for this. There's nothing specific, but you (or anyone) could start a thread for "Recommend Indie Books here." If there are enough, could start another thread for specific genres. (Or start one for "Indie Romance & Erotica" and another for "All Other Indie Books.")

Someone would have to decide what qualifies as "indie"--does it include "tiny publishers who sell without DRM?" Author self-pub only? Does or doesn't allow author-reclaimed backlist titles that were formerly published by a mainsteam house?

This can be done without saying the others "aren't indie;" the poster can say, "please, try to keep this thread to books of [category.] If there's interest in [other category], someone can open a new thread for that."

Fluribus · 06-28-2012, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWinmill

Perhaps you are in the majority.

If I were in the majority...

celebrity news would be rare
people wouldn't be famous for being famous
celebrities wouldn't get special treatment
publishers wouldn't pay celebrities to put their names on ghost-written books

As far as obscurity goes, if I didn't need the money, I would turn down a Nobel Peace Prize because I wouldn't want the hassle. And a Nobel Prize wouldn't even make me all that famous.

Heck! If I thought anybody would know who I was, I wouldn't post.

xg4bx · 06-28-2012, 08:36 PM

i pretty much only read indies anymore. while some have been better than others, i've gotten pretty lucky and haven't gotten anything i would outright consider garbage. the one thing that guarantees i won't by a particular indie book is formatting and typeface. if you can't follow proper indentation or would rather take the lazy way out and present it in paragraph "chunks", then i won't buy your book. there are also a few i've run across which the author decided to use a typewriter font (i don't know what its called) and it just looks terrible.

Kumabjorn · 06-29-2012, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluribus

If I were in the majority...

celebrity news would be rare
people wouldn't be famous for being famous
celebrities wouldn't get special treatment
publishers wouldn't pay celebrities to put their names on ghost-written books

As far as obscurity goes, if I didn't need the money, I would turn down a Nobel Peace Prize because I wouldn't want the hassle. And a Nobel Prize wouldn't even make me all that famous.
Heck! If I thought anybody would know who I was, I wouldn't post.

Without googling, how many can name the recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize in 2009?

rhadin · 06-29-2012, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kumabjorn

Without googling, how many can name the recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize in 2009?

It was prematurely awarded to Barack Obama.

Phogg · 06-29-2012, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhadin

It was prematurely awarded to Barack Obama.

Kind of before he went into Africa and the middle east with a program of military regime change that is so far producing Islamic Theocracies bent on religious purges.

Not that Romney, if he replaces him will be better in any area.

Scott Nicholson · 06-29-2012, 11:22 AM

I think it's hilarious that mass media thinks something needs to be "taken seriously."

I was a journalist, and I know writing about Locke, Hocking, EL James, etc, are essentially "lottery winner" stories. Notice they are never about the actual craft, subject matter, skill level, or even really the stories themselves, only about the money. Our community paper always had to write about the stupid fool who won $10,000 in the lottery (despite spending priobably $25,000 on tickets to win) because I guess lottery winners are supposed to be special. And the stories were always dull. Basically mindless escapism. "What's your secret, ma'am?" "Well, I just keep buyin' tickets and then one day I won."

But to me, lottery winners are still idiots. Just because you win doesn't mean you weren't foolish to buy a ticket. You're still a fool, just a fool with a little money (likely going back into more tickets, as lottery winners of ALL sorts--authors, athletes, celebs, lottery-ticket winners--tend to go broke).

Not to say indie authors who get lucky are "idiots" by any means. In many cases, they deserve it as much as anyone, but it is still largely luck of time and talent coinciding, no matter how they or others might spin it with their "How I sold a Million!" secrets they are happy to sell you.

It's not that serious. It's just some words. I know plenty of authors doing just fine without being taken seriously.

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06-25-2012, 05:04 PM	#61
ProfCrash Tea Enthusiast Posts: 8,554 Karma: 75384937 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Somewhere in the USA Device: Kindle1, Kindle DX Graphite, K3 3G, IPad 3, PW2	I have posted this before and been yelled at for it but what the hey... There are too many books being published for me, and I assume others, to sift through and find the gems. The BPH produce some real crap but it is easier to find the good stuff. For one, I can count on the work being proofread and edited. It might not be well done all the time but I know some attempt has been made. I cannot say that about independent authors. I have tried downloading samples and have been disappointed by the vast majority. I would love to read gret works by Indies but I don't know how to find them easily. It would be nice if there was some way of sifting through the Indies to find the good stuff but so far that has not been developed. Until that happens or the word gets out to hire proofreaders and editors so that the vast majority of the books are in good shape when published it is going to be hard for folks to take Indies seriously. Which is a shame because I know there are some good ones out there. But if it is easy to find so much crap in the few selective books the BPH publish you can only imagine what the perception, rightly or wrongly, is for authors who have not been picked up by the BPH. Ready for the flame throwers.

06-25-2012, 05:05 PM	#62
covingtoncat73 Wizard Posts: 2,745 Karma: 83407757 Join Date: Mar 2011 Device: Kindle Paperwhite, Lenovo Duet Chromebook, Moto e	Yeah, I haven't bought too many indies, maybe about 10, but I have been burned more than pleased. I do get tired of sifting through all the drek that has been infecting Amazon but, in all fairness, I have to say that I have certainly been burned by tradionally published books as well and at greater cost. It is a shame you can't trust the ratings, either on Amazon, Smashwords, or Kobo but you can't. The difference with books that are traditionally published, have big name authors, etc. is that the attract the attention of professional reviewers. When I go to Amazon, I'll look for a review by Library Journal or the like. A trick that can work for any book is to look at the 1 and 2 star reviews, really read them, even if there are only 1 or 2. You can usually tell if it is legitimate or just a crank/someone who doesn't like that genre, etc. I will say that Amazon's reccomendations used to work a lot better.

06-26-2012, 08:07 AM	#63
rhadin Literacy = Understanding Posts: 4,833 Karma: 59674358 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: The World of Books Device: Nook, Nook Tablet	I "buy" mostly indie fiction. I refuse to pay the prices asked by traditional publishers for books that I have to liberate. Consequently, of the 1100+ ebooks I have bought, more than 1000 are indies. Yes, a lot of indie books are junk -- poorly written, even more poorly edited and proofread (I just commented in response to one author's promotion of his new book that on page 2 of the sample, within a single sentence a child is born a boy and dies a girl, the transformation and death occurring within a few days of birth) -- but there are a lot of 4- and 5-star indie books available. (When I say 4-and 5-star, I mean that is how I would rate them, not necessarily how others have rated them or will rate them.) My method of finding these books is of necessity cumbersome and which is why the first book I read written by an unknown author I have to obtain for free. Basically, I download the free ebooks whose descriptions seem interesting or that are recommended here on MR. They get added to my TBR pile. When I start a book, I can tell within a few pages, certainly no more than 20 pages, whether it is a book worth reading. I would say that for every 5 or 6 books I start, only 1 is worth reading -- the others get deleted. Books are deleted for various reasons. I have little tolerance for misuse of homonyms in the absence of an otherwise exceedingly well-crafted story. With a well-crafted story, I'll try to tolerate the use of where for were, seen for scene, and the like, but even then i have limits. If a story is poorly crafted, it quickly gets the axe, as do stories where the dialogue is so amateurish I wonder if the author thinks his/her readers have nothing more than a third grade education. Yet with all this, there are some fantastic finds and when I find an author who has it altogether, I will immediately return to the Internet and buy their other books (in one instance, I read one free ebook and bought the author's 27 other ebooks). I've mentioned some of these authors before, but I'll mention them again: Richard Tuttle, Vicki Tyley, Tracy Falbe, L.J. Sellers, Shayne Parkinson, Michael Hicks, to name a few that I have found and whose subsequent books I have purchased. Finding these authors makes the cumbersome process worthwhile.

06-26-2012, 09:32 AM	#64
ProfCrash Tea Enthusiast Posts: 8,554 Karma: 75384937 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Somewhere in the USA Device: Kindle1, Kindle DX Graphite, K3 3G, IPad 3, PW2	Is there a topic here for readers to recommend Indie authors/books? Something where authors don't promote their works but readers give a review but discussion is limited so that it would be easier for a poster toscan through old posts? Maybe even something like a topic for different genres? Admittedly I don't check the recommendation board all that frequently so there could be something and I missed it. If not, this could help the authors. I would be more willing to trust regular posters, here and at kindle boards, than Amazon reviews.

06-26-2012, 12:06 PM	#66
musicman2523 Groupie Posts: 164 Karma: 302432 Join Date: Jan 2011 Device: pocketbook iq 701	For the past year I've read ONLY Indie books...............yeah, there are mistakes in most of them. But you know what? There are a lot of really good stories out there. I agree that they should hire and expert. the to, too two problems would go away. Some of these books.............actually quite a few of them, could be best sellers. The stories are that good.

06-28-2012, 08:36 PM	#71
xg4bx Are you gonna eat that? Posts: 1,633 Karma: 23215128 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Phillipsburg, NJ Device: Kindle 3, Nook STG	i pretty much only read indies anymore. while some have been better than others, i've gotten pretty lucky and haven't gotten anything i would outright consider garbage. the one thing that guarantees i won't by a particular indie book is formatting and typeface. if you can't follow proper indentation or would rather take the lazy way out and present it in paragraph "chunks", then i won't buy your book. there are also a few i've run across which the author decided to use a typewriter font (i don't know what its called) and it just looks terrible.

06-29-2012, 11:22 AM	#75
Scott Nicholson Scott Nicholson, author Posts: 363 Karma: 2029337 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Boone NC Device: Kindle	I think it's hilarious that mass media thinks something needs to be "taken seriously." I was a journalist, and I know writing about Locke, Hocking, EL James, etc, are essentially "lottery winner" stories. Notice they are never about the actual craft, subject matter, skill level, or even really the stories themselves, only about the money. Our community paper always had to write about the stupid fool who won $10,000 in the lottery (despite spending priobably $25,000 on tickets to win) because I guess lottery winners are supposed to be special. And the stories were always dull. Basically mindless escapism. "What's your secret, ma'am?" "Well, I just keep buyin' tickets and then one day I won." But to me, lottery winners are still idiots. Just because you win doesn't mean you weren't foolish to buy a ticket. You're still a fool, just a fool with a little money (likely going back into more tickets, as lottery winners of ALL sorts--authors, athletes, celebs, lottery-ticket winners--tend to go broke). Not to say indie authors who get lucky are "idiots" by any means. In many cases, they deserve it as much as anyone, but it is still largely luck of time and talent coinciding, no matter how they or others might spin it with their "How I sold a Million!" secrets they are happy to sell you. It's not that serious. It's just some words. I know plenty of authors doing just fine without being taken seriously.