Anyone watching the MS-BN announcement?

[ScotiaBurrell]

"We see the x86-based Pro as a corporate [laptop] replacement. This offering has more potential because the OS is backward compatible, has more robust security, leverages the existing installed base, and offers full Office support (and consistent file management). We expect the Pro (and its forthcoming ilk) will compete directly with touch enabled ultrabooks / corporate [laptops]. The Pro tablet has the potential to slow the rate of iPad penetration into enterprise accounts."

But Whitmore quickly qualified this as a "best case scenario" because Microsoft is "swimming upstream against the consumerization of IT," referring to employees who bring their own iPads to work.

Windows Pro Surface tablets must also contend with the iPad's superior battery life and the iPad's large number of third-party apps, he said.

RT tablets -- built around Windows RT and ARM silicon -- have even less chance against the iPad

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-574...rge-companies/

I suspect many will say 'what? the x86 version has more software than the iPad'. It does....but not for touch.

You cannot take a traditional desktop and mouse centric application and expect it to work well with touch. It has to be redone. That is the advantage he is probably discussing.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by stonetools

With the iphone, Apple made the bet that at the smartphone level of computing, a physical keyboard was unnecessary. Lots of people disagreed, pointing to the Blackberry as the defining paradigm of the smartphone user experience.
We can now agree that Apple was right.
Keyboards are neccesary to the PC experience: optical drives are not at this point.

Keyboards are useful, not necessary, same as the optical drive. You can work with the mouse and the virtual keyboard on a PC. Touch screens remove the need for a mouse. But just as you can attach an external optical drive, you can also attach a keyboard.

[stonetools]

You can work with the mouse and the virtual keyboard on a PC

Well, you can, but you don't want to.
Apple has gone a long way towards showing that the mouse isn't needed for the PC user experience, but the physical keyboard remains central. At bottom a PC is really a typewriter with a screen.

[CyGuy]

Originally Posted by stonetools

...At bottom a PC is really a typewriter with a screen.

That comment explains a lot of your previous statements. A PC is much much more than "a typewriter with a screen"...

[ScotiaBurrell]

Originally Posted by CyGuy

That comment explains a lot of your previous statements. A PC is much much more than "a typewriter with a screen"...

It's also a calculator with a keyboard. And a sketchbook sometimes too.

Originally Posted by ScotiaBurrell

You cannot take a traditional desktop and mouse centric application and expect it to work well with touch. It has to be redone. That is the advantage he is probably discussing.

Which may just be why Microsoft created a keyboard with touchpad for the Surface. Customers get the best of both worlds, rather than being told what they want from a single vendor.

[ScotiaBurrell]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

Which may just be why Microsoft created a keyboard with touchpad for the Surface.

Which means that developers have less incentive to innovate for the touchscreen.

Customers get the best of both worlds, rather than being told what they want

I thought customers went to the store or online and made informed decisions for themselves. There are certainly other tablets for sale.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Well, you can, but you don't want to.
Apple has gone a long way towards showing that the mouse isn't needed for the PC user experience, but the physical keyboard remains central. At bottom a PC is really a typewriter with a screen.

Actually, I do. I use PCs in my lab and it is very useful to be able to ignore the keyboard if I need the space for something else on the table.

Originally Posted by ScotiaBurrell

Which means that developers have less incentive to innovate for the touchscreen.

So people are supposed to live with inferior technologies in order to encourage innovation? I'm going to let you in on a deep and dark secret: touch screens have been around for decades, but have never caught on because they are not suitable for intensive and prolonged use. Unless you are using a stylus, they also lack precision. Precision is fundamental for some work. Before anyone gets on their high horse, I'm not saying that touch screens are useless. They certainly make life easier for quick inputs that can be spatially organized. I'm sure that you can add a few more things to that list. But they will never be a panacea for data entry jobs.

I thought customers went to the store or online and made informed decisions for themselves. There are certainly other tablets for sale.

Actually, they make decisions for themselves after the vendor has filtered the options. At least that is the case in the Apple ecosystem. You may be shocked to hear this, but some of us actually use the advanced features provided by desktop software. Apple refuses to allow some of those features into their store. To give you an example: you can write scripts to pull data from a website and dump it into a spreadsheet, then perform analysis. Tablets are capable of doing this type of work. There is nothing in their programming and hardware that prevents it. Alas, the deciding factor is a policy decision by the vendor.

Now you can choose a different tablet to avoid that stupidity, and I have. Microsoft has even gone as far as offering another option to that slate. Which kinda leaves me wondering: why are so many people wishing Microsoft ill in their new venture? It is, after all, just another option.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by CyGuy

That comment explains a lot of your previous statements. A PC is much much more than "a typewriter with a screen"...

(Sigh)
I know its more than that. I'm saying that's what it is at its core. The PC began as a screen, a keyboard, and a CPU.I don't see anything replacing the keyboard as the chief input device for the PC any time soon. If you disagree, you are welcome to your opinion.

[ScotiaBurrell]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

Actually, they make decisions for themselves after the vendor has filtered the options.

Such as MS not offering a mobile telephone that corresponds to its Surface tablet offerings?

Or MS not selling a 4:3 surface tablet for those that don't like 16:9? How about BN not offering a Kindle DX sized Nook with front light?



All vendors filter their options.


Consumers have yet to get the memo about touchscreens though. They're present everywhere now.

[Ankh]

Originally Posted by stonetools

The PC began as a screen, a keyboard, and a CPU.I don't see anything replacing the keyboard as the chief input device for the PC any time soon.

Ah, but stakes are high, QED (by this Microsoft move). The very concept of "personal computer" (or is it a "personal computing platform") is threatened by the arrival of increasingly capable mobile toys. Truly mobile, capable (and will be even more so in the foreseeable future) of packing some serious processing power... and affordable, too.

Keyboard? Why not add both mouse and big screen for the full blown workstation? A mobile device, as a concept, now "threatens" to pull the heart of PC, it's CPU, out of that screen-keyboard-cpu(and few other things) trinity... out.

[wodin]

Originally Posted by teh603

Only trouble with doing two things at once, you can't always do them equally well, or as well as you could do one thing. Apple tried and failed with MacOS and A/UX, but seems to have found a rare balance with OS X and iOS.

Time will tell, though. I'm still unsold on the tablet market thanks to Dell's repeated failures with the Inspiron Duo. Maybe when LO hits the Android market...

But they're not trying to do two things at once, they are trying to do two (three) things on the same device at different times. When it's docked it's a desktop, when it has the KB/cover attached it's a netbook/notebook, and when it's a slate; well it's a slate. MS has the desktop/notebook/netbook roles covered very well; it's only the slate role that is in question. But if Windows Phone is any indication, they're not doing too badly in that arena either.

Originally Posted by ScotiaBurrell

Such as MS not offering a mobile telephone that corresponds to its Surface tablet offerings? Or MS not selling a 4:3 surface tablet for those that don't like 16:9?

I'm not sure how things are going to work out for Windows 8 on mobile phones, but they are going to license Windows 8 to other vendors. If there is demand for a 4:3 tablet, another vendor will make it. Ditto when it comes down to the software, at least for the Surface Pro. (I'm not a fan of the restrictive marketplace for Metro software.) For consumers who want options, MS provides far more options than Apple. Same with Google: they provide far more options than Apple.

Now don't get me wrong. If you're okay with what Apple offers, then buy their products. Just don't expect everyone else to be. Some of us expect an open marketplace for hardware and software so that our individual needs can be addressed.

Consumers have yet to get the memo about touchscreens though. They're present everywhere now.

Got the memo. Just don't want to see my typing speed plummet to type on touch screen. Nor do I want to lose a huge chunk of the screen to the touch screen keyboard. And I definitely don't need the neck pain from the terrible ergonomics of looking down while typing. (Hey, some of us are touch typists!)

[wodin]

Originally Posted by ScotiaBurrell

All vendors filter their options.

Some more than others!