Anyone watching the MS-BN announcement?

[wodin]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

And please stop talking about iPad as the pinnacle of tablets. It isn't. Just as Android isn't and Windows 8 isn't. Each of these products address different markets.

As I understand the WindSurf Pro model, Windows 8 will address two markets, for the simple on the go iPad/Android realm you have the Metro interface, and for the netbook/notebook (and desktop if you add a KVM & external drives)realm there is the Desktop interface.

Sounds like a winner to me!

[teh603]

Originally Posted by wodin

As I understand the WindSurf Pro model, Windows 8 will address two markets, for the simple on the go iPad/Android realm you have the Metro interface, and for the netbook/notebook (and desktop if you add a KVM & external drives)realm there is the Desktop interface.

Sounds like a winner to me!

Only trouble with doing two things at once, you can't always do them equally well, or as well as you could do one thing. Apple tried and failed with MacOS and A/UX, but seems to have found a rare balance with OS X and iOS.

Time will tell, though. I'm still unsold on the tablet market thanks to Dell's repeated failures with the Inspiron Duo. Maybe when LO hits the Android market...

Originally Posted by teh603

Only trouble with doing two things at once, you can't always do them equally well, or as well as you could do one thing. Apple tried and failed with MacOS and A/UX, but seems to have found a rare balance with OS X and iOS.

Time will tell, though. I'm still unsold on the tablet market thanks to Dell's repeated failures with the Inspiron Duo. Maybe when LO hits the Android market...

The thing is, Microsoft isn't trying to do two things well. They are extending an existing (very successful) product so that it will function with new technologies.

I think the real questions comes down to this: have they done those extensions well? Will there be enough uptake of those extensions by ISVs for Windows RT to be successful?

The irony of the whole situation is Microsoft still wins even if Metro fails. Yes, they would have lost the tablet wars, but that really only amounts to losing a segment of the consumer market. On the other hand, they would have proven that tablets are not a viable option for content creation or business use. So their desktop market would continue to thrive for years to come.

(For what it's worth, Mac OS X and iOS use the same core OS but moderately different APIs so that comparison doesn't really work out. Mac OS and A/UX used a completely different OS and different API, so that comparison doesn't work out either. The closest comparison are Microsoft's prior offerings for tablet PCs.)

[Kumabjorn]

It might only be me, but I get the feeling that MS is playing much more defense since Ballmer took the reins in Redmond.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by Kumabjorn

It might only be me, but I get the feeling that MS is playing much more defense since Ballmer took the reins in Redmond.

That's 'cuz he's bald

[petermillard]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

...On the other hand, they would have proven that tablets are not a viable option for content creation or business use. So their desktop market would continue to thrive for years to come.

Nonsense. If Metro fails, all it will prove is that Microsoft dropped the ball (again) - despite their decade-long head start in tablet PCs, and regardless of small but voluble groups of people on internet forums who claim with certainty that you can't do 'real' work on a tablet that doesn't have a 'PC' appendage

If you make hammers, everything looks like a nail - and MicroSoft sure keeps bang-bang-banging on that Tablet PC theme; maybe this time it'll work <shrug> but first they need to ship an actual working product that will perform functions people need (or want) at a price they're prepared to pay.

You have until 'the fall', and your time starts now...

[HansTWN]

Aren't you forgetting the huge business market? The Intel version will no doubt be a great success there. Now consumers are a very different story, but even they may be convinced by a superior product at a similar price.

[Kumabjorn]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Aren't you forgetting the huge business market? The Intel version will no doubt be a great success there. Now consumers are a very different story, but even they may be convinced by a superior product at a similar price.

That was my initial reaction, but I'm not that sure anymore. Look at what happened with the shift from BlackBerry to iPhone. That was in most parts done on an individual basis. IT departments loved the BB with its security features and abhorred the iPhone, but people didn't really care. Half or more of the work force knows enough now about IT that they can ignore them. Surface will need to appeal to individauls as much as IT departments to find their market niche.

[VaporPunk]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Aren't you forgetting the huge business market? The Intel version will no doubt be a great success there. Now consumers are a very different story, but even they may be convinced by a superior product at a similar price.

Agreed. Enterprise wants their employees creating content, not just consuming it. By all accounts, the Surface is way better then the iPad for that. Even the RT version.

Originally Posted by Kumabjorn

That was my initial reaction, but I'm not that sure anymore. Look at what happened with the shift from BlackBerry to iPhone. That was in most parts done on an individual basis. IT departments loved the BB with its security features and abhorred the iPhone, but people didn't really care. Half or more of the work force knows enough now about IT that they can ignore them. Surface will need to appeal to individauls as much as IT departments to find their market niche.

You have a point there but this is not just a phone, its a productivity device. Besides, if your company buys you one, it would have to be pretty crap for you not to use it. And I can see companies buying these by the bushel.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by stonetools

The Macbook Air (no optical drive) , the Mac App Store, and the last two versions of Mac OS X make it clear that you can go without an optical drive and still have an advanced computer experience-including installing and using powerful software tools.

And despite your strong conviction, Apple made the MacBook Air Super Drive, so they obviously disagree with you.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

And despite your strong conviction, Apple made the MacBook Air Super Drive, so they obviously disagree with you.

What that says is that Apple thinks of optical drives as useful, but not neccesary, to a certain level of computing experience. Given MBA sales, and the coming Wintel ultrabooks , consumers agree with them.

[hrosvit]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

Take a look at the small netbooks that are being sold to people who need a little bit more that a tablet provides. Many of them don't include DVD drives either.
Physical distribution of software is on the way out.

That was not my point (and, admittedly, I may have stated it poorly). I don't care what method you use to install software, be it thumb drive, CD/DVD or download. The point is not the installation method, it's the software itself. The reason why an iPad and/or an Android tablet cannot replace a computer (to some people) is the lack of specific software. There are countless software packages that (some/many/lots/a whole buttload of) people use/need/want that are simply not available as Android/iOS apps.

Your example of a netbook is a good one: you notice that netbooks run a full version of Windows (or Linux). I can install whatever software I want on that netbook (as long as it has sufficient resources); I am not limited to the App Store or Google Play.

Although I don't love the lack of USB and SD on the iPad, the thing that limits it to a consumption device for me isn't the hardware; it's the OS. I can't install some software that I use on a regular basis; therefore, it can't "replace" my computer. I love it for what it is; what it ain't is a laptop. Will the Microsoft tablet be able to replace a computer? Probably not. I'm sure it will have shortcomings. But it's starting from a point that I am interested in; a full Windows installation (at least the higher model).

On another note, physical distribution of software may well be on its way out (and I agree, it is), but until we have nearly universally available broadband without data limitations, it will not disappear completely.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by hrosvit

The reason why an iPad and/or an Android tablet cannot replace a computer (to some people) is the lack of specific software. There are countless software packages that (some/many/lots/a whole buttload of) people use/need/want that are simply not available as Android/iOS apps.

Exactly the same would apply to Macs.
Macs never achieved enough market share to make it worthwhile to port many apps to them. Maybe iOS and Android will, maybe they won't, but to say that because the software isn't available now it never will be doesn't make sense.

[hrosvit]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

Exactly the same would apply to Macs.
Macs never achieved enough market share to make it worthwhile to port many apps to them. Maybe iOS and Android will, maybe they won't, but to say that because the software isn't available now it never will be doesn't make sense.

You seem to be saying that I am incorrect about iPads/Androids not being able to replace laptops/desktops because someday all of the software we will need/want will be available as apps. Is this a correct interpretation of your statement?

When all this software becomes available, then I'll agree with you and joyfully ditch my computer, and fully embrace my iPad. Shall we now hold our breath together while we wait for this app Nirvana?

With regards to the Mac, I agree that there are lots of software packages that are not available for the Mac. However, if I were so inclined (I'm not), I could run Parallels on my Mac and use my Windows software.

[stonetools]

Agreed. Enterprise wants their employees creating content, not just consuming it. By all accounts, the Surface is way better then the iPad for that. Even the RT version.

I think the vision is there, but its going to come down to excution. Now Microsoft is great at execution, and I wish them the best of luck. Still, they have a big mountain to climb.
1. They are starting so far back in the field that they need a telescope to see Apple.
2. They were missing a lot at at their presentation. Gruber:

But no pricing, no battery life specs, no demonstrations of the seemingly extraordinarily clever cover-keyboards in action, or really much in the way of software demonstrations, period

With 90 days or so till launch, you would think that they would have a kickass MS Office demo, at least.
Now they should be able to have the core apps and MS office ready to go at launch, but this should be a matter of seeing, not believing.I'm hoping they won't follow the usual Microsoft way of not getting things right with software till version3.0. Like it or not, the expectation is now that everything has to be ready to go from Day One. The IPad launch has set that standard for our expectations.