Anyone watching the MS-BN announcement?

[rdfry]

Originally Posted by elemenoP

The keyboard cover does look cool. I look at it and think, "why didn't Apple do that for the ipad?" I don't have an ipad so I don't know what 3rd party keyboards there are for it. Any as cool/light/integrated as the Surface one is or appears to be?

eP

Microsoft better be careful Apple probably already owns that patent.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Apple in designing the iPad, made a decision not to go with SD cards and USB slots- to much techie disgust. We don't know why Apple did so,

Eh, I thought there was kind of concensus about why they did it. Everybody seems at least to think that the reasons was to build a walled garden by keeping full control of how you put data on the device and in that way keep out third party appa and data that they do not control and earn money on.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by rdfry

Microsoft better be careful Apple probably already owns that patent.

And even if they don't, in five years the fen will pretend they invented it anyway.
(Realistically, it doesn't much matter which of the two owns the patent: they are both fully cross-licensed.)

Originally Posted by tompe

Eh, I thought there was kind of concensus about why they did it. Everybody seems at least to think that the reasons was to build a walled garden by keeping full control of how you put data on the device and in that way keep out third party appa and data that they do not control and earn money on.

I'm going to be a bit less cynical about that: iOS had its origins in the iPhone and security is a far greater concern for mobile devices. The iPhone and iPod Touch were also devices for mass consumption, so SD cards were probably a minor concern.

On top of that, I get the impression that SD cards have a lot of compatibility issues. There are also data integrity issues if people remove them willy-nilly. Apple likes reliable products. They also put design over function. SD cards may not use much space, but they certainly use some space. Definitely an issue on the iPhone, but my understanding is that the iPad is mostly battery anyway so space is still valuable. Finally, it adds a few cents to manufacturing costs, and Apple loves their margins.

So there are a tonne of reasons not to include it. Just don't expect certain people to buy an iPad without that feature though.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

So there are a tonne of reasons not to include it. Just don't expect certain people to buy an iPad without that feature though.

Indeed.
If you envision the device as a pure terminal on a network, like the old NETWORK COMPUTERS, the lack of removable media could be a *feature*.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Computer
Note that even phones that have SD card slots treat them as memory expansion rather than removable media, hiding the slots in hard-to-reach places.

And skipping SD support does save money and simplify the design so if your user profile doesn't call for it, leaving it out means more profits. And who doesn't like profits?

[plib]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

They also put design over function.

In a nutshell.

[hrosvit]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Tell me again why Grandma will want a PC with USB, SD, and HDMI capability, a high end graphics card, and the horsepower to run Adobe Photoshop and Microsoft Access applications?

Because Grandma wants to run one of thousands of specific programs that have no app in the Apple or Android market. Grandma doesn't need a high end graphics card or HDMI; she needs a device that you can insert a CD or DVD into and install software. Someone needs to come up with that device. (Actually, someone already did; it's a laptop. But we're operating under the assumption that everyone wants a tablet).

[CyGuy]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Tell me again why Grandma will want a PC with USB, SD, and HDMI capability, a high end graphics card, and the horsepower to run Adobe Photoshop and Microsoft Access applications?

HDMI is a must since flat screen TV's make awesome monitors. USB is also a must in order to plug in thumb drives, DVD players, keyboards, mouse, etc. SD is a must because in order to add storage space you simply spend a few dollars on a new card and insert. High end graphics cards are optional, USB and SD are not...

[WillysJeepMan]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

I'm going to be a bit less cynical about that: iOS had its origins in the iPhone and security is a far greater concern for mobile devices. The iPhone and iPod Touch were also devices for mass consumption, so SD cards were probably a minor concern.

On top of that, I get the impression that SD cards have a lot of compatibility issues. There are also data integrity issues if people remove them willy-nilly. Apple likes reliable products. They also put design over function. SD cards may not use much space, but they certainly use some space. Definitely an issue on the iPhone, but my understanding is that the iPad is mostly battery anyway so space is still valuable. Finally, it adds a few cents to manufacturing costs, and Apple loves their margins.

So there are a tonne of reasons not to include it. Just don't expect certain people to buy an iPad without that feature though.

Apple's consumer mobile devices didn't start with iOS. From the original iPod on there has never been an Apple mobile device that included expandable storage.

Apple makes a greater percentage of profit on the larger capacity devices. Their price structure is designed to steer consumers towards those more profitable devices.

It has nothing to with security, data integrity, or card compatibility. Plenty of companies manage to implement SD cards in their product and are able to deal with those "issues". Macbook Pros have SD card slots and handle them just fine.

Why can't people accept that a for-profit company makes decisions that benefit their profit? Why is it "cynical" to believe that? Why is it preferable to offer alternative explanations?

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by hrosvit

Because Grandma wants to run one of thousands of specific programs that have no app in the Apple or Android market. Grandma doesn't need a high end graphics card or HDMI; she needs a device that you can insert a CD or DVD into and install software. Someone needs to come up with that device. (Actually, someone already did; it's a laptop. But we're operating under the assumption that everyone wants a tablet).

And if I said " Everyone wants a tablet" you would have a point. What I actually said was " Lots of consumers" You're beating the wrong strawman. .

My point is that the tablet is aimed at the consumer who doesn't want to fiddle with with any of that power user stuff : they just want to consume, communicate and create simple stuff. And they are the overwhelming majority of consumers.
If you look at the App Store, there's an app for just about everything that kind of consumer wants to do, and they can instal it without the need for a CD , a DVD, flash drive, or any worries about malware. THe huge success of the iPad proves that for lots of consumers that walled-garden limited, post-PC experience is just fine for them- which flummoxes those who "just don't get it" when they can do the same things with a netbook running Linux.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by WillysJeepMan

Apple's consumer mobile devices didn't start with iOS. From the original iPod on there has never been an Apple mobile device that included expandable storage.

Apple makes a greater percentage of profit on the larger capacity devices. Their price structure is designed to steer consumers towards those more profitable devices.

It has nothing to with security, data integrity, or card compatibility. Plenty of companies manage to implement SD cards in their product and are able to deal with those "issues". Macbook Pros have SD card slots and handle them just fine.

Why can't people accept that a for-profit company makes decisions that benefit their profit? Why is it "cynical" to believe that? Why is it preferable to offer alternative explanations?

We don't know for sure, but I for one am OK with the explanation that the decision was based on Apple's business model. Clearly, consumers are OK with this too-which why Apple can sell a gajillion of thse devices. Plainly, removeable storage options are not that important to the average consumer. Note too that the bestselling e-ink reader-Amazon's Kindle- has no removeable storage options either.
Could it be that for the average consumer removeable storage options are unnecessary on mobile devices? Quelle horreur!

[stonetools]

Good analysis in this NYT ARTICLE.

The nub:

For hardware makers, the PC market has long been a struggle because Microsoft and Intel, maker of the microprocessors that power most computers, have long extracted most of the spoils from the industry, leaving slim profits for the companies that make them. Manufacturers pay hefty fees to license Windows from Microsoft, putting pressure on them to make computers as cheaply as possible using commodity parts.

That, in turn, has limited their ability to take the kinds of risks on hardware innovation that have helped define the iPad. Furthermore, with the iPad, Apple has proved that there are significant advantages to designing hardware and software together. When separate companies, each with its own priorities, handle those chores, integrating hardware and software can be more challenging.

“You’ve got this sclerotic partnership structure where the partners don’t have any oxygen to be innovative,” said Lou Mazzucchelli, an entrepreneur in residence for a venture capital fund backed by the state of Rhode Island and a former technology analyst. “I believe Microsoft was painted into a corner. If they’ve didn’t move soon, Apple would have so much of a lead, it would be almost impossible to catch them.”

[hrosvit]

Originally Posted by stonetools

And if I said " Everyone wants a tablet" you would have a point. What I actually said was " Lots of consumers" You're beating the wrong strawman. .

My point is that the tablet is aimed at the consumer who doesn't want to fiddle with with any of that power user stuff : they just want to consume, communicate and create simple stuff. And they are the overwhelming majority of consumers.
If you look at the App Store, there's an app for just about everything that kind of consumer wants to do, and they can instal it without the need for a CD , a DVD, flash drive, or any worries about malware. THe huge success of the iPad proves that for lots of consumers that walled-garden limited, post-PC experience is just fine for them- which flummoxes those who "just don't get it" when they can do the same things with a netbook running Linux.

So which is it: "lots of consumers", or "the overwhelming majority of consumers"? Those are two very different things. How many iPad consumers are there? Estimated figures are around 60-70 million, cumulative. How many of those 60-70 mil. aren't unique purchasers, but are existing iPad users upgrading to a newer model? Now how many "computer" purchasers are there? Claiming that "people need computers, not just iPads" is not a strawman. 60-70 million people is not the overhwelming majority of consumers.

Just because "a whole bunch" of users have chosen to buy an iPad doesn't mean they view it as the sum total of everything they want in a device. How many compromised? I did. I shelled out the money for a brand new 4G 64GB model. And I love it. But it has serious shortcomings. Yes, I realize we vote with our dollars, and that, by purchasing an iPad, I am sending a signal to Apple that their current model (no SD, no USB) is acceptable. But I'm not happy about it. And I'm not giving up my laptop or desktop. I happen to like gadgets, so having multiple devices is not a bad thing. But some other people would prefer to limit the number of devices they have, and the iPad often cannot fulfill all of their needs.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by stonetools

And if I said " Everyone wants a tablet" you would have a point. What I actually said was " Lots of consumers" You're beating the wrong strawman. .

My point is that the tablet is aimed at the consumer who doesn't want to fiddle with with any of that power user stuff : they just want to consume, communicate and create simple stuff. And they are the overwhelming majority of consumers.

Are you saying that there are more people with tablets than people with laptops and/or desktops?

[stonetools]

But I'm not happy about it. And I'm not giving up my laptop or desktop. I happen to like gadgets, so having multiple devices is not a bad thing. But some other people would prefer to limit the number of devices they have, and the iPad often cannot fulfill all of their needs.
__________________
But I'm not happy about it. And I'm not giving up my laptop or desktop. I happen to like gadgets, so having multiple devices is not a bad thing. But some other people would prefer to limit the number of devices they have, and the iPad often cannot fulfill all of their needs.
__________________

I would say that there are lots of users like you (I'm a laptop owner, myself , by the way). I'm also saying that there are lot of consumers-probably the majority -who simply don't need and don't want to deal the complexity and options of a laptop (shocking, but true ). For such folks, a tablet will be sufficient.
There will still be a lot of folks that need a PC for work purposes, but they'll use them at work. At home, most consumers will lean back with a tablet , smartphone, e-ink reader , game console, smart TV or some other type of post PC device. If they have a hobby, where they need to do something like advanced video or graphics editing , then they'll buy a laptop.
As for multiple devices, people will own as many devices as they wan tand can afford. Its imoportant to realize that you don't actually NEED any of these devices. There's a billion Chinese who don't own any of these devices- including the "MUST HAVE" laptop-and yet they somehow go on living.