The Big Reasons Indie Authors Aren't Taken Seriously

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

This is why the example is so appropriate to the comparison to independent authors. At its heart, it makes absolutely no sense.

Surely the comparison would be to some guy down the road who made the car himself?
There are established 'foreign' car brands like BMW and Mercedes, that no one would sensibly describe as rubbish. There is no similar 'vetted' group of independent writers, the good ones are lumped in with those who can barely string a sentence together, some of whom are rubbish.
It is not reasonable to believe that there are no independently published eBooks of equal quality to those you would find in a bookstore. It is reasonable to believe that if you took the average quality of all independently published eBooks available on Smashwords and Amazon, it would be lower than the average quality of books you would find in a B&M store.

[Fluribus]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

This is why the example is so appropriate to the comparison to independent authors. At its heart, it makes absolutely no sense.

At our heart, we make absolutely no sense. Sense may be an infection from outside ourselves. Perhaps some simply have more immunity than others.

As for publishers...
Are they really gatekeepers attempting to weed out the dreck? Do they simply look for dreck that will make the largest profit?

I've seen a number of complaints that the publishers have cut back on editors. That the editor's of old, those who worked diligently to polish the gem created by the author, were seen as an unnecessary expense.

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

In many parts of the U.S., and with many distinct groups, the stigma is still there, loud and clear. Keep in mind that a stigma doesn't have to be logical to be accepted by many people... sound familiar?

I think the stigma goes the other way now, though. American cars have gotten much, much better, but they are stigmatized as still not being as good as imports. I lot of people I know won't consider buying a Ford, Chevy, or Chrysler. I would have a hard time myself.

[hidari]

I reckon Steve made a good comparison....more or less.... However, The main point to consider is how young the indie 'ebook' industry is....I am guessing by 2015 or 2020 things will be very different and people will have more respect for the indie industry.... That said... Seeing books with 4 or 5 stars after just being published is a bit pathetic....

Originally Posted by Fluribus

As for publishers...
Are they really gatekeepers attempting to weed out the dreck? Do they simply look for dreck that will make the largest profit?

From the publisher's perspective, a good book is a book that sells. From the reader's perspective, a good book is a book that they want to buy. The motivations are complimentary, even if they produce a market full of dreck. It is also the way it should be, since a market full of literary masterpieces is going to cater to the interests of so few people that books will be sitting on the shelves collecting dust rather than reaching the hands of reader.

That being said, there are publishers/imprints that cater to readers with more refined tastes. Go for those publishers if the mainstream publishers aren't producing quality material (in your opinion). And yes, feel free to wade through that minefield that is self-publishing. Just don't expect the stigma of indies to go away because indies include anyone: from the hideous to the beautiful. I realise that this attitude is incredibly unfair to the great independent authors, but independent authors also have to accept that most of their peers are independent because they cannot publish any other way.

I've seen a number of complaints that the publishers have cut back on editors. That the editor's of old, those who worked diligently to polish the gem created by the author, were seen as an unnecessary expense.

This is something that publishers do at their own peril, since it is far easier to gain a reputation for low quality products than high quality products.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Fluribus

At our heart, we make absolutely no sense. Sense may be an infection from outside ourselves. Perhaps some simply have more immunity than others.

As for publishers...
Are they really gatekeepers attempting to weed out the dreck? Do they simply look for dreck that will make the largest profit?

I've seen a number of complaints that the publishers have cut back on editors. That the editor's of old, those who worked diligently to polish the gem created by the author, were seen as an unnecessary expense.

Truth and the reason the publishing industry is crashing (quite independently of ebooks). They don't care about the core of their business, they are only focused on the bottom line and return on investment.

[plib]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

This is something that publishers do at their own peril, since it is far easier to gain a reputation for low quality products than high quality products.

Rather neatly illustrated by the comment about American cars just above!

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by Fluribus

I've seen a number of complaints that the publishers have cut back on editors. That the editor's of old, those who worked diligently to polish the gem created by the author, were seen as an unnecessary expense.

Sadly, this is true. Editing is a hidden value and so the bean counters squeeze it.

[J. Strnad]

These days it seems that indies have become a farm team for publishers to choose from. Once you hit a certain sales point, they become interested. I haven't seen them discover any new writers who weren't selling well. As noted above, they exist to publish what sells, period. They lost their "gatekeeper" credentials about twenty years ago.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by rhadin

Sadly, this is true. Editing is a hidden value and so the bean counters squeeze it.

Quality (in any product) is a hidden value and gets squeezed by the bean counters. It was the same for US cars in the 1970's and 80's...

Somehow, nobody ever holds the bean counters to account...

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Somehow, nobody ever holds the bean counters to account...

Sure they do: Bean-counters are held accountable for counting beans. And if a product of low quality brings in more beans than a product of high quality, no matter how it was accomplished, the bean-counters have done their job.

The publishing industry has been listening exclusively to their bean-counters for so long that they can't imagine any other way to function, which is why badly-written indie books with high sales like 50 Shades get snapped up instead of well-written books that no one discovers.

The best part of this is that an indie author who does well gets snapped up by a major publisher; at which time, they are no longer an indie author, and the publishers can continue to say there are no successful indie authors...

[Lazybones]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

Sure they do: Bean-counters are held accountable for counting beans. And if a product of low quality brings in more beans than a product of high quality, no matter how it was accomplished, the bean-counters have done their job.

The publishing industry has been listening exclusively to their bean-counters for so long that they can't imagine any other way to function, which is why badly-written indie books with high sales like 50 Shades get snapped up instead of well-written books that no one discovers.

The best part of this is that an indie author who does well gets snapped up by a major publisher; at which time, they are no longer an indie author, and the publishers can continue to say there are no successful indie authors...

This is a good point; publishers can skip the tedious task of digging through the slush pile and grab writers who have proven they can sell. They still add value through marketing power, if not editing prowess.

[Kumabjorn]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

The best part of this is that an indie author who does well gets snapped up by a major publisher; at which time, they are no longer an indie author, and the publishers can continue to say there are no successful indie authors...

I would imagine that there are indie authors who like their independence, who doesn't want editors hanging over them with deadlines, or who doesn't enjoy book signings, speeches, university lectures, all the extraneous stuff that comes with being an established author. People who want to remain independent, maybe even reasonably anonymous.

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Truth and the reason the publishing industry is crashing (quite independently of ebooks). They don't care about the core of their business, they are only focused on the bottom line and return on investment.

Publishers are not crashing. They are more profitable than ever. There is a tendency on MR to conflate one's opinion of what publishers *should* do with what they are actually doing, and to assume that because they aren't doing what we think they should, they are dinosaurs who are failing. However, this really isn't true - despite doing things a lot of people disagree with (i.e., no library lending), they are making more profit than they have in years.

Originally Posted by J. Strnad

These days it seems that indies have become a farm team for publishers to choose from. Once you hit a certain sales point, they become interested. I haven't seen them discover any new writers who weren't selling well. As noted above, they exist to publish what sells, period. They lost their "gatekeeper" credentials about twenty years ago.

I think the farm team analogy is a very good one.

Originally Posted by hidari

I reckon Steve made a good comparison....more or less.... However, The main point to consider is how young the indie 'ebook' industry is....I am guessing by 2015 or 2020 things will be very different and people will have more respect for the indie industry.... That said... Seeing books with 4 or 5 stars after just being published is a bit pathetic....

I don't think people will have any more respect for indie publishing generally in 2015 or 2020 than they do now because I don't think that indie publishing as a whole will improve. The problem with indie publishing is that it is 95% bad. It's not like an automobile where you can improve the parts that aren't working: in the future it will still be 95% bad...or even 98% bad as more people discover it.

Note, however, that 5% of a large enough number is still a large number.

You can use word of mouth to cut through the dreck, and people whose books were previously published tend to indicate this fact.

Originally Posted by Kumabjorn

I would imagine that there are indie authors who like their independence, who doesn't want editors hanging over them with deadlines, or who doesn't enjoy book signings, speeches, university lectures, all the extraneous stuff that comes with being an established author. People who want to remain independent, maybe even reasonably anonymous.

Of course there are people like this; the difficulty, if they are talented, lies in getting their books known. IOW, how do they separate themselves from the undifferentiated mass? (Particularly if they don't want to do the kind of extraneous stuff that can help to get your book known.)

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

Publishers are not crashing. They are more profitable than ever. There is a tendency on MR to conflate one's opinion of what publishers *should* do with what they are actually doing, and to assume that because they aren't doing what we think they should, they are dinosaurs who are failing. However, this really isn't true - despite doing things a lot of people disagree with (i.e., no library lending), they are making more profit than they have in years.



I think the farm team analogy is a very good one.


I don't think people will have any more respect for indie publishing generally in 2015 or 2020 than they do now because I don't think that indie publishing as a whole will improve. The problem with indie publishing is that it is 95% bad. It's not like an automobile where you can improve the parts that aren't working: in the future it will still be 95% bad...or even 98% bad as more people discover it.

Note, however, that 5% of a large enough number is still a large number.

You can use word of mouth to cut through the dreck, and people whose books were previously published tend to indicate this fact.


Of course there are people like this; the difficulty, if they are talented, lies in getting their books known. IOW, how do they separate themselves from the undifferentiated mass? (Particularly if they don't want to do the kind of extraneous stuff that can help to get your book known.)

The authors who are good won't make themselves known.

The readers not only will, they already do.

I have found a number of good indie writers the last few years through the forums here and Goodreads. I should probably look at Library thing as well.
There are also dozens of sites with forums catering to every sort of genre fiction out there.

The same mechanic that broke the RIAA strangle hold on music is operating here. As many of us predicted it would.