Anyone watching the MS-BN announcement?

[=X=]

Originally Posted by teh603

It really pains me to say this, but MS is actually going in a direction that tablets should go, but haven't- being full desktop replacements. The only one I'm aware of that comes anywhere close is the EEE Transformer by Asus, and even that has its limits because Android doesn't have a printing stack and thus has to rely on Google's cloud printing.

Now if only someone could light a fire under Red Flag's butt and get a viable Linux-based alternative going...

Not the same but if you have an HP Printer you can use the ePrint App that handles most of the common file formats. For the formats it does not handle you can use your ePrint account and print via the web.

Originally Posted by teh603

Now if only someone could light a fire under Red Flag's butt and get a viable Linux-based alternative going...

What's "Red Flag"?

I'm not very excited about the whole Surface tablet, I find having an OS that runs desktop apps and tablet apps to be very klugy. It reminds me of BlackBerry's attempt to bring their trackpad/keyboard OS to a touch screen device. It worked okay but it was kluge and had a lot of compatibility issues.


Personally I find Ubuntu for Android much more exciting (link...)

I would love to see that setup with Asus PadPhone.

=X=

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by =X=

There are two models a Windows RT and a Windows 8 Pro. The former is the consumer model,uses ARM) a that competes with iPad/Android the latter is more of a full fledged laptop with beefed up HW and is bigger, thicker, and runs Intel.

I know. So where's their $500 (16GB) model? At $600 for an entry level model, they'll be hard pressed to compete against the iPad's $400 and $500 entry level models.

Additionally, what about the licensing fees for Windows? Microsoft says it won't undercut pricing for other OEMs using these two Windows platforms, so how will the fees be factored in?

[wodin]

Originally Posted by teh603

You sure that was an Ubuntu ROM, or someone just rooting it and choosing something to the effect of "load other OS"? Cause if there was an Ubuntu ROM for ARM, I'm sure it would've been all over the message board.

I'm not sure, I just remember seeing threads over at XDA-Developers about it. I wasn't really interested so I didn't follow the threads.

[JoeD]

Wonder if they'll lock the bootloader to prevent anyone installing Linux.

I'm not sure what to think about it, I suppose it'll depend on pricing. I'm glad MS are making a go of it though, need to keep Apple on their toes I just hope they don't go down the complete lock down/control freakery road that Apple has.

The signs are there that they are though, the ARM version sounds like it'll only run metro which will mean using the metro app store only for apps (much like with metro on win 8 desktop)

The intel version has more promise since it'll run desktop apps. That tends to suggest it won't be locked down to an app store only setup. I hope not anyway, otherwise both versions would be pointless as far as my usage is concerned.

I wish MS would allow installation of any app and just recommend people go via their app store. It's the one thing that bugs me about Apple's tablet/phone and the general direction computers are heading in Which brings me full circle to, hope they don't lock down the bootloader to prevent linux installations.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by =X=

What's "Red Flag"?

The Chinese Nationalist flavor of Linux.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Flag_Linux

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by JoeD

Wonder if they'll lock the bootloader to prevent anyone installing Linux.

On the x86, probably.
But remember: Surface will *not* be the only RT or x86 Win8 Tablets coming this fall. Surface is just the benchmark.
There will be cheaper, plasticker, versions as well as other mutations. (convertibles, 8inchers, 4x3 and 16x10 aspects, hard-drive versions...)
And on the OEM hardware it will be up to the vendor to lock the bootloader or not.
(That was settled months ago.)

[Dulin's Books]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

I know. So where's their $500 (16GB) model? At $600 for an entry level model,

there has not been any mention of a $600 price tag for the 32GB RT models. they could just as easily start at $399-$499.

[teh603]

Originally Posted by JoeD

Wonder if they'll lock the bootloader to prevent anyone installing Linux.

I wouldn't be surprised in the least if OEM versions of Windows 8 had a ROM-based bootloader to achieve the same effect; permanently locking the user in to Windows whether they want it or not. MS has already tried it at least once before, twice if I remember right. It knows that to survive it has to keep its victims... I mean customers, dependent upon it.

I wish MS would allow installation of any app and just recommend people go via their app store. It's the one thing that bugs me about Apple's tablet/phone and the general direction computers are heading in Which brings me full circle to, hope they don't lock down the bootloader to prevent linux installations.

As Google has found out with Android, that's the way to security failures and driveby malware. The secure option, which Apple has taken, is less popular. There's no middle ground here, unfortunately. If someone makes a platform popular enough, sooner or later there will be malware.

[emellaich]

My forecast is a bit different ... not that I claim any great accuracy [grin].

I think this will be priced a bit high. I don't think Microsoft actually wants to sell any of these. See if this is really competitively priced, then there is no reason for HP, Dell, Lenovo, Acer, Asus, Sony et al. to make any tablets. And if this works right it will squeeze out their laptop business eventually. I don't think Microsoft wants to give up on these folks as marketing channels.

My belief is that MS is tired of the slow response from its tablet partners. What they have done is made a 'reference design'. Unlike regular reference designs, however, they are actually selling it. I think they are trying to set a benchmark for their partners: Here is the guideline for spec's and prices. Now you need to beat this with whatever you have.

Frankly, its the only way I can make sense of their announcement. Why announce it now? It clearly wasn't really ready to go. They didn't let anyone try the keyboard. They didn't have a release date, and they didn't have a price.

I think they wanted to put a stake in the ground so they could negotiate with their partners. My guess is that they were seeing a lot of cheap, underpowered tablets and a lot of over-sized expensive systems similar to the old fashioned tablet PC's.

They might want to steer their partners in a specific direction, and if they are successful look for this to fade away. It may never be sold. Or it may only be sold at a high price point to leave partners room for their products. And even if its sold, as soon as the partners come out with competitive products, they might discontinue the line.

However, this is far from bad news. It may mean that we will see a wide variety of riffs on this from each partners perspective: a serious business device, a consumer version, an ultimate portability version, one that converts easily to a desktop when docked, etcetera.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by Dulin's Books

there has not been any mention of a $600 price tag for the 32GB RT models. they could just as easily start at $399-$499.

And Apple will price match

[Kumabjorn]

MS badly needs to make a dent in the market. Moving to mobile devices is as huge a paradigm shift as the introduction of the IBM PC. Apple couldn't match prices since they didn't have the production experience of IBM and the Asian clones that followed.

The move to iPhone, iPad and later Android and Galaxy Tabs etc means that if MS wants to be part of the future and not a legacy maker of software they have to step up to the plate and hit a home run (didn't think a European could come up with that metaphor, did you?) and in order to do that they will have to undercut the price for both iPads and Galaxy Tabs with their Surface with at least $100 on a device with similar specs. I doubt they will do that at the initial stage, but then they will find few buyers. Those who already own similar device will not be lured over, and they hold a powerful position in the market. Almost all my friends, that aren't that interested in gadgets, come to me asking for advice on what to buy and why they should select a certain device.

Few will recommend a device they haven't used for a certain time span, so if price isn't appealing the word of mouth marketing on social media will be severely limited.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by Kumabjorn

...they have to step up to the plate and hit a home run (didn't think a European could come up with that metaphor, did you?)

Yeah, I figured you'd say "kick a home run"

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by teh603

You sure that was an Ubuntu ROM, or someone just rooting it and choosing something to the effect of "load other OS"? Cause if there was an Ubuntu ROM for ARM, I'm sure it would've been all over the message board.

Sure there is an Ubuntu for ARM. I used Ubuntu on my HP Touchpad for quite a while before a fully functional Android ICS was available. One big problem with Ubuntu is the lack of Flash support, of course, so in the end I deleted it, since I use my tablet for watching online videos and 64GB is not much space for 3 OSs.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Dulin's Books

there has not been any mention of a $600 price tag for the 32GB RT models. they could just as easily start at $399-$499.

The CNET and ZDNET folks, *especially* the anti-MS faction there, all assume $499 for the RT models.
MS has done the "comparable" pricing thing before and it has always actually been competitive. After all, the hardware is roughly comparable to the iPad *and* MS doesn't insist on Apple-like margins so they can afford it.

Let's not forget: Surface exists to make a point and profits, if any, will be secondary. You don't make a point by over-charging.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

And Apple will price match

A banana for the monkey!

Apple. Price-match!

That would be... like... a first, no?

I get that you expect Surface to be over-priced and DOA.
Not unreasonable; a lot of people feel that way.
But don't get carried away.