What is piracy?

[Joshua.P]

stonetools, there's already heaps of petitions on the internet doing just that. For example: http://www.dontmakemesteal.com/en/

[AndrewH]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

Why? It's not as if you are purchasing the ideas contained within the text. You are merely renting them.

I'm neither purchasing nor renting the "ideas"; I'm purchasing a file (in the case of an ebook), or a collection of paper and ink (in the case of a dead-tree book).

If you leave an ebook on your ereader for a year, and suddenly the ideas contained in the ebook become more valuable, why shouldn't you have to pay the creator more for the ideas if you ever decide to read them?

If you don't even have the basic understanding of economics necessary to understand the difference between purchasing vs renting, then any attempt to answer your question would be futile. This is such a ridiculous statement that I can't help wondering whether you're deliberately trolling. Perhaps you could answer Fluribus's questions posted above?

At least we are getting somewhere. I like to think I live in my own geo-restriction where nothing is ever sold...

Rationalized stealing is still stealing.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by Joshua.P

stonetools, there's already heaps of petitions on the internet doing just that. For example: http://www.dontmakemesteal.com/en/

I'm talking about something a little more grown up and realistic than that. Let's face it, posting some pie in sky wish list on the Internet isn't the way to get meaningful change done in the real world.
Take geo-restrictions. They stem from the artist's right to determine when and where their products are released to the public. That's an important right . Charles Stross, who is an arch foe of DRM, puts the stakes on geo restrictions like this:

The point to take away from this essay is: if you're an author and you rely on your North American rights, you'll be on the bread line. To actually earn a living, you really need to exploit other territorial and language rights.

Obviously, platitudes and simplistic , unrealistic statements won't solve this complex issue. I'd like to see some thinking that goes a little more adult than " I want it now -and for a pittance!"

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

Books not available because of geo-restriction / no longer sold.. Seams like an okey reason to pirate.

Finding the e-books too expensive is a reason not to buy the book, but not to pirate it.

like lines in the sand so are the days of our lives.

[Joshua.P]

Stonetools, your post don't actually have much substance to them. What is your point? You say this "wishlist" is childish and unrealistic, yet the only thing you do recommend is more "adult thinking". What thinking is that, care to share?

[maxiart]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

If we were "legally" able to sell ebooks we purchased, then we could have bought multiple copies of her book for 99 cents and then resold it later on when she decided to raise the price to eight dollars. In other words, by lending a book that has had its price increased you are stealing from the creator yes?

I sincerely hope you are joking, because otherwise you make not much sense at all. If you buy something, and only afterwards the author decides to raise the price, then its only too bad for the author.

As for the whole, 'its okay to pirate because of Geo-restrictions, but not because of finding a book to be pricey' someone mentioned, well, one is really not better than the other. I'd go as far as to say it is white-washing.

Not that I care, mind you.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by stonetools

I'm talking about something a little more grown up and realistic than that. Let's face it, posting some pie in sky wish list on the Internet isn't the way to get meaningful change done in the real world.
Take geo-restrictions. They stem from the artist's right to determine when and where their products are released to the public.

Obviously, platitudes and simplistic , unrealistic statements won't solve this complex issue. I'd like to see some thinking that goes a little more adult than " I want it now -and for a pittance!"

I agree completely and unreservedly with stonetools.

Spoiler:

And yes... it feels a little bit weird to say that, but I gotta call 'em like I see 'em.

It's not that I don't find some of the twisted analogies and the "maybe not impossible but very improbable" scenarios compelling at times. But the fact is... I. Don't. Care. What. Your. Reasons. Are. If you want it; buy it... if you can't afford it; don't buy it... if they won't let you buy it; buy something else—have some soup or something. That's my stance. Don't take for free what the rights-holder expects to be paid for. Period.

On the other side of the coin, I don't think those who frequent darknet are committing heinous acts deserving of being boiled in oil either. Just don't expect any pats on the back and atta-boys all around from me.

I guess my point is this: if you're going to do it, then fine... just do it and shut up about it. Nobody who disagrees with you is ever going to validate your rationalization attempts anyway, so why do you try so hard to earn that acceptance? It's apparent you didn't need it when you first convinced yourself it was OK.

[EDIT: Rhetorical yous abound]

[Joshua.P]

I don't think the "Period" thing quite works when what your saying is written.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Joshua.P

I don't think the "Period" thing quite works when what your saying is written.

Sure it does. Otherwise it wouldn't have grabbed your attention like it obviously did—and was intended to do. "Your" when you meant "you're", however, is always wrong.

[Dulin's Books]

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

Books not available because of geo-restriction / no longer sold.. Seams like an okey reason to pirate.

no. just read something else. if it does become legitimately available at some future point thats a bonus.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by Joshua.P

Stonetools, your post don't actually have much substance to them. What is your point? You say this "wishlist" is childish and unrealistic, yet the only thing you do recommend is more "adult thinking". What thinking is that, care to share?

If I had a one click, universal solution to the issue of piracy, I would not be posting it here, I can assure you. The problem is a big salami, that's going to have to be dealt with one slice at a time.
As to geo restrictions, I'm really not sure that there is any solution other than to contact the rights holders and to urge patience. I think that the era of geo restrictions is passing but it hasn't yet passed. Dear Author, who is anti DRM and anti BPH, says geo restrictions are a difficult issue.

When authors enter into contracts with publishers, generally, they sell just a few flowers to the publishers. Those flowers give the publisher the right to use that Book in various ways but only in North America. But these contracts can vary a great deal. Foreign rights sales can end up making as much money for the author as the original advance. What I have been told by some authors is that they don’t want to impair their marketability for those foreign markets by allowing an english language digital edition to be sold in that region. Other authors say that their foreign edition rights haven’t been purchased by any publisher and they don’t want to give them up for no additional money.

LINK

What DOESN'T solve the issue is screwing the author.

[stonetools]

I agree completely and unreservedly with stonetools.

I'm going to save this and put this in bronze.

[RDaneel54]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

It's not that I don't find some of the twisted analogies and the "maybe not impossible but very improbable" scenarios compelling at times. But the fact is... I. Don't. Care. What. Your. Reasons. Are. If you want it; buy it... if you can't afford it; don't buy it... if they won't let you buy it; buy something else—have some soup or something. That's my stance. Don't take for free what the rights-holder expects to be paid for. Period.

On the other side of the coin, I don't think those who frequent darknet are committing heinous acts deserving of being boiled in oil either. Just don't expect any pats on the back and atta-boys all around from me.

I guess my point is this: if you're going to do it, then fine... just do it and shut up about it. Nobody who disagrees with you is ever going to validate your rationalization attempts anyway, so why do you try so hard to earn that acceptance? It's apparent you didn't need it when you first convinced yourself it was OK.

[EDIT: Rhetorical yous abound]

I agree 100%. Pay for what you want, save if you can't buy it now, live without it if you can never afford it. That's probably "old fashioned." Much better to justify theft, proudly shouting your rights to do so to the world (sarcasm).

But then again, like DiapDealer I wouldn't go all Les Miserables on you. Les Miserables, which is in the Public Domain, is available for free in many versions here on MobileRead, lovingly provided by hard working forum members for us to enjoy.

As noted above, rhetorical yous provided free of charge.

[Freeshadow]

Just one question:
Would we discuss Communism, the topic would end up moved to hardened debaters rather speedy. How comes the same doesn't happen when Giggleton starts (another) thread promoting his Freeloadism? (or whatever this Communism-for-retarded should be named)

[AndrewH]

Originally Posted by Freeshadow

Just one question:
Would we discuss Communism, the topic would end up moved to hardened debaters rather speedy. How comes the same doesn't happen when Giggleton starts (another) thread promoting his Freeloadism? (or whatever this Communism-for-retarded should be named)

Gigglenomics?