French culture minister: "Allowing publishers to fix prices is best"

[plib]

Originally Posted by stonetools

LINK

Yep, the showroom effect really does exist-and it affects independents.NB. Check the comments if you have any doubt.

The Codex Group is described by its President, Peter Hildick-Smith, as a “pollster for publishers.”

You'll forgive me if I don't place any reliance on the "academic studies" and "LINKS" you post so profligately?

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by plib

The Codex Group is described by its President, Peter Hildick-Smith, as a “pollster for publishers.”

You'll forgive me if I don't place any reliance on the "academic studies" and "LINKS" you post so profligately?

(Shrug)
So? The comments to the article make it crystal clear that it happens.
You can certainly treat the survey with skepticism. But there is plenty of evidence to independently corroborate the survey's conclusion.

[plib]

Originally Posted by stonetools

(Shrug)
So? The comments to the article make it crystal clear that it happens.
You can certainly treat the survey with skepticism. But there is plenty of evidence to independently corroborate the survey's conclusion.

I'm sure it does happen, I'm not arguing that. I'm just giving up on links or studies that are referenced without question as if they were the Ten Commandments handed down from Mount Sinai and then used to support the usual conclusion, when all too often 30 seconds of Google search shows that they're more the word of Mammon than that of God.

[ProfCrash]

And before the internet people would go to stores and compare prices. The reality is that people comparative shop and did so before the internet.

WalMart, Barnes and Noble, Borders were doing a fine job of underpricing local businesses before Amazon came along.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by plib

I'm sure it does happen, I'm not arguing that. I'm just giving up on links or studies that are referenced without question as if they were the Ten Commandments handed down from Mount Sinai and then used to support the usual conclusion, when all too often 30 seconds of Google search shows that they're more the word of Mammon than that of God.

You can question them all you want, mate, so long as you don't just dismiss them out of hand because they don't agree with your idealogy.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

And before the internet people would go to stores and compare prices. The reality is that people comparative shop and did so before the internet.

Why those sleazy bastards.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

And before the internet people would go to stores and compare prices. The reality is that people comparative shop and did so before the internet.

WalMart, Barnes and Noble, Borders were doing a fine job of underpricing local businesses before Amazon came along.

Yeah, but with the Internet and smartphones such behaviour has gone to 11. There's evenan Amazon app for THAT.

The response by the American Bookseller's Association:

Dear Jeff Bezos,

We’re not shocked, just disappointed.

Despite your company’s recent pledge to be a better corporate citizen and to obey the law and collect sales tax, you created a price-check app that allows shoppers to browse Main Street stores that do collect sales tax, scan a product, ask for expertise, and walk out empty-handed in order to buy on Amazon. We suppose we should be flattered that an online sales behemoth needs a Main Street retail showroom.

Forgive us if we’re not.

We could call your $5 bounty to app-users a cheesy marketing move and leave it at that. In fact, it is the latest in a series of steps to expand your market at the expense of cities and towns nationwide, stripping them of their unique character and the financial wherewithal to pay for essential needs like schools, fire and police departments, and libraries

LINK

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Why those sleazy bastards.

ACtually, they aren't sleazy bastards. They engaging in conduct that is legal and even morally defensible. But it will produce a result-the disappearance of brick and mortar book stores-that is sub-optimal, possibly even for Amazon and cerrtainly for local communities. The question is, How can we get a better result?
Its a difficult problem that can't be solved by the usual answer here,

"BECAUSE THE INTERNET!!!"

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by American Book Hoobie-whatie

Despite your company’s recent pledge to be a better corporate citizen and to obey the law and collect sales tax, you created a price-check app that allows shoppers to browse Main Street stores that do collect sales tax, scan a product, ask for expertise, and walk out empty-handed in order to buy on Amazon.

My favorite part is how they've tried to draw a direct correlation between illegal activity and the perfectly legal price-check app. That was smoothly done.

I won't pretend I'm crazy about the price check app—on principle alone. But I learned long ago that I can't expect businesses (or consumers) to eschew perfectly legal advantages simply because I'm a stodgy old fart who finds some of those advantages slightly distasteful.

Originally Posted by stonetools

Its a difficult problem that can't be solved by the usual answer here,

"BECAUSE THE INTERNET!!!"

I wouldn't be so sure the answer won't be "BECAUSE THE INTERNET." Especially if B&M business owners/industries can't get past the "whining about businesses using the internet to beat you at your own game" phase.

[Ninjalawyer]

Originally Posted by stonetools

But the " showroom effect"shows that they are providing book buyers with an attractive shopping experience. Its just that Amazon is appropriating the benefits of it. Here is a deeper analysis, along with a suggestion for a better model:



LINK

I don't really understand why I should care about the showroom effect. People have always shopped around, now they're just doing it with modern tools. So what? That's not a problem to be fixed, that's an economic reality and a lot of stores, not just independent bookstores need to deal with it. I can't imagine why Amazon would want to partner with physical bookstores.

Oh, and the section of your quote is quite funny as there's another thread discussing how a recent study has shown that crowdsourced reviews are actually more accurate than one's by individual "experts".

Damn those crafty consumers! Always trying to save a buck off us poor ol' business owners! There ought to be a law against comparing prices or competing on price!

This is honestly as funny as when the head of a movie studio complained about people using Twitter to tell their friends how much a movie sucked, leading to a quick drop off in sales. Frankly, I had no idea that Stonetools was such an ardent advocate of societal good and small business. It's almost as if this is all a hilariously thin smoke screen for his usual pro-publisher, anti-Amazon rants.

[K. Molen]

I've mentioned this elsewhere, but I have zero problems with the whole showroom issue. Especially because it constantly goes both ways. I've often used Amazon and other online stores to do my research, and then gone out and done the buying locally.

And whether buying online or off, Amazon is always my first stop when choosing between different models of a product, because their reviews aggregate makes it very easy to narrow down my choices to a select few.

Amazon has spent a lot of money to get the kind of website and infrastructure that allows me to use them this way, so an argument could easily be made that what I'm doing is equally as wrong as using a local vendor as a showroom and then ordering from Amazon.

But I don't think either behaviour is wrong. It's just the way retail works in the modern world, and I think it would be a mistake to try to artificially impose restrictions on it in order to cling to the past. I'm not even that hardcore of a freemarket capitalist, no I consider myself left of center politically, I just have no sentimental attachment to the whole idea of maintaining a presence of local community merchants.

[Barcey]

I expect a minor press release in a couple of months announcing that "Frédéric Mitterrand has joined the board of directors of Hachette Livre". Bought and paid for.

[Ninjalawyer]

Originally Posted by K. Molen

I've mentioned this elsewhere, but I have zero problems with the whole showroom issue. Especially because it constantly goes both ways. I've often used Amazon and other online stores to do my research, and then gone out and done the buying locally.

Great point, I've used Amazon's reviews a ton of times before heading out to a local bookstore. And for ebooks, I typically browse Amazon before buying from the Kobo or Sony store. It's funny that Amazon never complains about all the big bad independent stores taking advantage of their infrastructure.

Originally Posted by K. Molen

But I don't think either behaviour is wrong. It's just the way retail works in the modern world, and I think it would be a mistake to try to artificially impose restrictions on it in order to cling to the past. I'm not even that hardcore of a freemarket capitalist, no I consider myself left of center politically, I just have no sentimental attachment to the whole idea of maintaining a presence of local community merchants.

I cannot say "this" hard enough.

[plib]

Originally Posted by stonetools

You can question them all you want, mate, so long as you don't just dismiss them out of hand because they don't agree with your idealogy.

I don't dismiss them out of hand because they don't agree with my ideology but because they're bought and paid for, just like the politicians who happily extend copyright to life+70 and don't care how ridiculous that is when much more significant IP such as statins are out of patent protection in 20 years.

Of course the public backlash would be much greater if amoxicillin was still in patent protection and the owners were engaged in an illegal conspiracy to artificially raise the price. If that were the case the politicians might not get re-elected and they wouldn't stand for that, it would end their gravy train. But it's OK to keep resuscitating Ol' Big Ears as long as the public doesn't get too outraged and the pols can keep feeding their pension plans.

I look forward to your link showing an "academic study" that proves that keeping Lipitor in patent until 2050 is for the greater "societal good". Liebowitz and the Heartland Institute would probably be a good place to start.

[plib]

Originally Posted by K. Molen

I've mentioned this elsewhere, but I have zero problems with the whole showroom issue. Especially because it constantly goes both ways. I've often used Amazon and other online stores to do my research, and then gone out and done the buying locally.

Exactly. I've done it both ways. Researched on Amazon, Newegg, etc. and then bought locally or looked at a physical item in Best Buy and bought on Newegg/Amazon. Over the years it's probably been about 50/50 each way. As far as I'm concerned either way just means I'm using whatever resources are available to make an informed decision. Sometimes the service/convenience/return policy of a local store is a deciding factor, sometimes it's price, sometimes it's the nature of online buying/shipping - I'd never buy a hard drive that UPS had kicked from one end of a truck to the other.

To imply that anyone comparison shopping is somehow sleazy is just ludicrous, but that kind of whining is what has become the norm in some industries over the last decade or so.