Apple 7" mystery tab solved?

[ilovejedd]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

I'd be very surprised if any 7" iPad was below $299, given that the iPod Touch starts at $199. $249 would be an extremely attractive price. They don't need to price-match the Fire to draw market away from it.

I reckon $249 is quite feasible given Apple's economies of scale. They can use the same Apple A5 CPU used in the iPhone 4S or iPad 2. Besides, more likely than not, storage on the $249 would be so small (perhaps 8GB similar to the iPod Touch?) that most people would pony up for the next higher model (likely 32GB at $100 more).

[JoHunt]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

Apple make very little (relatively speaking) from iTunes content.

I guess $1.8 billion in profits from iTunes (2011) is very little for a company the size of Apple, but since Amazon got a good head start on a 7" device, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple comes out with an attractively priced device in order play catch up and increase its iTunes sales.

I also wouldn't be surprised if the iPod Touch was retired in favor of a mini-iPad, thereby making room for better pricing.

[ProfCrash]

The IPod Touch starts at $199 so I doubt that the 7 inch IPad will cost less then that. Heck, the largest IPod Touch is $399. And that is a four inch screen which many people are buying.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by joehunt

I guess $1.8 billion in profits from iTunes (2011) is very little for a company the size of Apple

Given that their second quarter profit for 2012 was $11.6 billion, yes it is.
In that quarter iTunes generated $1.4 billion of revenue, or just under 6% of total revenue for the quarter.
Content sales are profitable, and I don't think Apple would run them as a loss-leader, but they aren't what drives the company, hardware sales are.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by joehunt

I also wouldn't be surprised if the iPod Touch was retired in favor of a mini-iPad, thereby making room for better pricing.

It might make more sense than having three different form factors of essentially the same device, but as long as they sell the iPhone, they might as well sell the iTouch, as almost all the work has been done, the iTouch is basically an iPhone without the phone.
If they replace the iPhone with a larger-screen device, it wouldn't be surprising for the current iTouch to go away.

[ilovejedd]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

The IPod Touch starts at $199 so I doubt that the 7 inch IPad will cost less then that. Heck, the largest IPod Touch is $399. And that is a four inch screen which many people are buying.

Yeah and the iPad 2 16GB Wi-Fi is now down to $399 and the original iPad (refurb) is down to $299. There's some overlap with Apple products. People buy based on what product and form factor they want.

We won't be seeing a 7" iPad costing less than the iPod Touch but I don't think it's completely out of the realm of possibility that Apple might release one for $249. They could employ some of the cost-saving techniques they use for the iPhone/iPod: no GPS, lower quality cameras, lower-quality display, etc.

We're due for an iPod refresh soon (actually overdue since one wasn't released last year) and given previous iPod Touch refresh cycles, we'll probably see a dual-core Apple A5 processor on the new Touch - same as the one used on the iPhone 4S and iPad 2. If Apple can put the A5 on a $199 iPod Touch, they can probably make a 7" iPad and sell it for $249 while keeping their healthy profit margins.

[ProfCrash]

You are talking about products that are one to two models behind the current leader. While they work great and people will buy them, they are not the big seller. People are shelling out almost $1000 for the higher end IPad 3 and $399 for the higher end IPod Touch.

A 7 inch IPad is going to be a new device. I suspect that a 8 GB version would start in the $300 range, somewhere between the current IPad and current IPod Touch.

[ilovejedd]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

You are talking about products that are one to two models behind the current leader. While they work great and people will buy them, they are not the big seller. People are shelling out almost $1000 for the higher end IPad 3 and $399 for the higher end IPod Touch.

A 7 inch IPad is going to be a new device. I suspect that a 8 GB version would start in the $300 range, somewhere between the current IPad and current IPod Touch.

The most popular iPod Touch model is probably the 32GB one ($299). I reckon the 32GB model is also the most popular for the iPad 3 (Wi-Fi $499, 4G $629).

Apple doesn't need to release a smaller iPad. They've already done the same thing as they did with the iPhone - release a new version (iPhone 4S, iPad 3rd gen) but continue manufacturing older versions (iPhone 3GS & iPhone 4, iPad 2) as lower cost options. Whether they release a 7" iPad or not will probably be a function of how big a market Apple thinks exists for the form factor (that or if their marketing department can convince folks to buy a 7" iPad at whatever price they decide to sell it).

We have no idea what approach Apple will take with a smaller iPad nor do we know if Apple will even release a smaller iPad. Apple could very well release one at $349~449 (entry-level 8/16GB) with practically the same hardware as the latest model, just in a smaller form factor or they could release one at $249~349 (entry-level 8/16GB) with specs from last year's iPad and lower quality parts. Either way, Apple still keeps their healthy profit margins.

[SeaKing]

Originally Posted by ilovejedd

The most popular iPod Touch model is probably the 32GB one ($299). I reckon the 32GB model is also the most popular for the iPad 3 (Wi-Fi $499, 4G $629).

Apple doesn't need to release a smaller iPad. They've already done the same thing as they did with the iPhone - release a new version (iPhone 4S, iPad 3rd gen) but continue manufacturing older versions (iPhone 3GS & iPhone 4, iPad 2) as lower cost options. Whether they release a 7" iPad or not will probably be a function of how big a market Apple thinks exists for the form factor (that or if their marketing department can convince folks to buy a 7" iPad at whatever price they decide to sell it).

We have no idea what approach Apple will take with a smaller iPad nor do we know if Apple will even release a smaller iPad. Apple could very well release one at $349~449 (entry-level 8/16GB) with practically the same hardware as the latest model, just in a smaller form factor or they could release one at $249~349 (entry-level 8/16GB) with specs from last year's iPad and lower quality parts. Either way, Apple still keeps their healthy profit margins.

The 32GB iPod Touch I bought for a friend cost $279 at Amazon over a year ago. It has a 3.5" screen. I set it up myself which is why I know most of what I know about modern Apples, though I do pass the cash on over to some relatives for their Apple purchases on special occasions. That same friend I spoke of loves my Samsung Galaxy Tab 7 Plus which is 7" but has told me she would put both aside if she could have a small iPad about 6" to 7". It would go in her pocket book.

People here on the MR site are being too obsessive about size and pricing. Sometimes smaller devices cost as much or more as larger devices though they essentially do the same thing. Look at cars. Planes. Boats.

It wouldn't be difficult to differentiate a small iDevice and sell it for more than a larger iDevice.

A big reason I see Apple going to 7" or even 6" with an iPad is to provide their customers with a convenient size that they desire.
Another reason is to crush their competition by not giving them free rein in any segment of the market. As Genghis K was reported to say, "he loved to hear the wails of the defeated as they suffered and as he crushed their wives and children to his breast."

[tomsem]

But it is one thing to create a size 'customers desire' and another to do so without giving developers Android sized headaches. What developers do not need is another form factor to deal with. And what customers don't need is to sit around waiting for mini-compatible apps to come out. How will it run existing apps?

Speculation is that it is 1024x768 (just like iPad1/2) but that would not put it in 'retina' display territory, which is where Apple is setting the bar now. And the iPad UI is scaled quite deliberately to the size of an 'average' human fingertip, which is not going to magically shrink to 70% of its current value. A 'shrunken' iPad interface may thus not work as well and will at least not be 'optimal'.

On the other hand, who wants to run iPhone apps on any iPad?

If a third form factor is in the works, then only selected developers know about it now, and perhaps there will have to be another section in the iTunes App Store, and all of that. It will mean a lot of churn at a time when Android may finally be putting some of its fragmentation issues behind it and gaining traction, as well as another Microsoft tablet iteration. Much of the appeal (and profitability) of iOS (and of Apple products generally) is that the choices are deliberately limited. Do they really want to mess with success? OTOH, maybe they need to risk doing so.

If they do go ahead with a 7" I agree with SeaKing that it doesn't have to compete on price. Macbook Air is what Apple did instead of a netbook, and reflects their product and profit-seeking philosophy perfectly.

[petermillard]

Originally Posted by tomsem

...and reflects their product and profit-seeking philosophy perfectly.

And you manage to make that sound like a bad thing

Originally Posted by tomsem

If they do go ahead with a 7" I agree with SeaKing that it doesn't have to compete on price.

Not necessarily with other manufacturers but it would still have to fit into Apple's own pricing line-up, and the only way I can see space for a smaller iDevice in the ~$250 range is to kill off the iPod Touch line - in which case, I think we're more likely to see a larger iPod Touch-alike, rather than a smaller iPad.

But then, who knows <shrug>

[tarzanphan60]

It will be interesting to see how it all pans out. I don't think it would have happened while Steve Jobs was at the helm - but with new management they might start getting desperate. But I want my iPhone 5 first.

[afv011]

Originally Posted by tarzanphan60

It will be interesting to see how it all pans out. I don't think it would have happened while Steve Jobs was at the helm - but with new management they might start getting desperate. But I want my iPhone 5 first.

You'll get it in October, a 4 incher if rumours are to be believed.

[SeaKing]

Originally Posted by afv011

You'll get it in October, a 4 incher if rumours are to be believed.

I saw that too.

Frankly, the crap from Apple (primarily Steve Jobs) about the 9.7" and 3.5" sizes as being sacrosanct optimums, and it being stupid to offer anything else, reminds me of the same old same old Apple used to spout about the locked up early Macs before Jobs was forced out of the company.

Those sizes aren't magic. It was the ease of operation that Apple provided that was magic.

Other simple things also, like no multitasking so the effective speed was great. Now that speed was magic.
The great displays. that was magic.

There was an advantage with the first iPhone and 3.5" screen with the average thumb being able to cross over the total screen, but after the idea was sold, it wasn't so important. Nothing is lost with the idea when there is more real estate available for all the stuff that is now available.

The 9.7" iPad screen looked really good when it first came out as a movie watching device, and a magazine and newspaper reading device, but people aren't always laying on their sofas or in their recliners and 9.7" is like handling a dinner plate. Hard to do if you want to be somewhere else, standing on a train, or you wish to carry it in a pocket or even a small purse.

[afv011]

Originally Posted by SeaKing

I saw that too.

Frankly, the crap from Apple (primarily Steve Jobs) about the 9.7" and 3.5" sizes as being sacrosanct optimums, and it being stupid to offer anything else, reminds me of the same old same old Apple used to spout about the locked up early Macs before Jobs was forced out of the company.

You know what's even more disturbing? Now Apple apparently indicate that Steve was involved in designing an iPhone with a screen larger than 3.5". I have a feeling that for the next few years Apple will hint that Steve was involved in every thing they release, just to keep their products mystical and "blessed by Steve". Obviously, although Steve said that 7" tablets were DOA, when Apple release a 7", they will say that Steve was closely involved on the design. They should give the man a break and let him rest in peace.

Many people have sworn by the 3.5" iPhone with "it's the right size for your hand" and all that stuff, but you want to bet they'll be the first to queue for the larger iPhone?

Apple, based in Cupertino, California, has placed orders from suppliers in Asia for screens that are bigger than the 3.5- inch size now on the smartphone, said one of the people, who asked not to be identified because the plans aren’t public. Apple co-founder Steve Jobs had worked closely on the redesigned phone before his death in October, one person said.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...er-screen.html