What are derivative devices in literature

[ebusinesstutor]

Cool, this thread is #2 in Google for the keyword search derivative device. None of the other first page results area about literary derivative device, so I think it is a word combo your beta reader made up.

So their word combo isn't derivative.

[Rob Lister]

Originally Posted by ebusinesstutor

Cool, this thread is #2 in Google for the keyword search derivative device. None of the other first page results area about literary derivative device, so I think it is a word combo your beta reader made up.

So their word combo isn't derivative.

In the rain...

[crich70]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

Because it abandons the notion of a finished text.

Actually as I understand it a Beta Reader is someone who reads your text and points out errors and such in your writing. In other words he/she is an editor, usually of a fan fiction story. I don't think that you have to abandon the idea of a finished text if you use a Beta Reader. Usually writers of fan fiction that have such help email it to their Beta Reader who then sends the file back to the writer (after reading it over and making suggested cuts, changes, etc) and the writer then makes those changes (or not) before posting the actual text to a site like fanfction.net.

[crich70]

I agree with the others about the meaning of 'derivative.' If you write a fiction story that uses portals based in tech. for example as a means of characters getting round most people will think 'Stargate' even if you don't call them that. The problem is it is very hard to find something that is really new to use as such a plot device. One thing that helps Stargate: SG-1 to stand out is the fact that they blend the technology in with mythology. So the gods of ancient Egypt (and other places) become space aliens who have the means to regenerate themselves.

[Newkidontheblock]

Thanks Guys he emailed me back and explained what he meant

Michael,

Some of the plot points took hard left turns from what I expected, it is referred to as a derivative device because it starts as a plot point you understand, and then surprises the reader. This is definitely good; it means people will want to read more of your work.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by Newkidontheblock

No, they are not part of it, just first to witness it. They were reading a full novel. It has not been professionally edited but complete. Now, as the name said I am new to all of this but from what I have read and been told, this is what I need to do. I also like the feedback I get. It gives me some Idea of what to expect from the agents that requested fulls.

Lois McMaster Bujold once wrote that writing is inherently collaborative in nature, because (in her opinion) no book is finished until someone reads it, and every reader brings something of their own to the collaboration. Seems very respectful towards her readers.

[RHWright]

Originally Posted by Newkidontheblock

Thanks Guys he emailed me back and explained what he meant

Michael,

Some of the plot points took hard left turns from what I expected, it is referred to as a derivative device because it starts as a plot point you understand, and then surprises the reader. This is definitely good; it means people will want to read more of your work.

Well, I'm glad we're now just making sh@t up in a black-is-now-white kind of way.

They seem to be saying that the plot point/device took an unexpected and original turn. Whereas "derivative" as an adjective (such as in the construction derivative device) should follow on from the definition "lacking originality."* Or exactly the opposite of what they seems to be trying to say.

Words have perfectly good meanings, people. Don't go making up new ones unless you really do need some new nuance of meaning not heretofore available. You'll find this stuff in books!



*http://www.merriam-webster.com/dicti...1&t=1336762727

[crich70]

Originally Posted by taustin

Lois McMaster Bujold once wrote that writing is inherently collaborative in nature, because (in her opinion) no book is finished until someone reads it, and every reader brings something of their own to the collaboration. Seems very respectful towards her readers.

I remember reading an article about story writing that talks about that idea. The author says that character x walks into a diner in the early evening and orders a cup of coffee. From that the reader fills in a lot of details on his/her own. The faded linoleum tiles on the floor, the tired waitress, the wooden booths and small square tables with the napkin holders sitting next to the salt & pepper shakers, etc. As readers we fill in some details based on our own experiences. We know what a small mid-town diner in the city should look like and picture it in our minds when the character walks into it and sits down.

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by crich70

I remember reading an article about story writing that talks about that idea. The author says that character x walks into a diner in the early evening and orders a cup of coffee. From that the reader fills in a lot of details on his/her own. The faded linoleum tiles on the floor, the tired waitress, the wooden booths and small square tables with the napkin holders sitting next to the salt & pepper shakers, etc. As readers we fill in some details based on our own experiences. We know what a small mid-town diner in the city should look like and picture it in our minds when the character walks into it and sits down.

In lit-crit this topic is called reader response theory.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by crich70

I remember reading an article about story writing that talks about that idea. The author says that character x walks into a diner in the early evening and orders a cup of coffee. From that the reader fills in a lot of details on his/her own. The faded linoleum tiles on the floor, the tired waitress, the wooden booths and small square tables with the napkin holders sitting next to the salt & pepper shakers, etc. As readers we fill in some details based on our own experiences. We know what a small mid-town diner in the city should look like and picture it in our minds when the character walks into it and sits down.

Those small details seem more important...

It might be absurd to say that the reader is more important than the creator, I would be fine with allowing both to be equally important.

[Scott Nielsen]

Originally Posted by Newkidontheblock

<snip>

Some of the plot points took hard left turns from what I expected, it is referred to as a derivative device because it starts as a plot point you understand, and then surprises the reader. This is definitely good; it means people will want to read more of your work.

This person is a literary critic? One must assume in a pure amateur-capacity.