Used bookstores, harbors of piracy?

[petrucci]

Originally Posted by Harry_Y

We are talking Property Rights, Not containment of a disease.


Far to many are willing to give up their rights without a fight.
Many fought and died to ensure those rights, It baffles
me why some are so willing to give them up so easily.

The more we allow others to strip away our Right
the more we willingly walk into slavery to others.

I never want to look into the eyes of my grandchildren knowing that
I stood by and did nothing while their rights got stripped from them.

Again I largely agree, however, there may be instances in which your property rights are restricted for the benefit of a larger group of people.

Lets say that you have a farm and the fertilizers that you use run off into the public water supply. There may be cause to restrict your use of fertilizers.

Other agriculture related instances that come to mind are genetically modified crops and their effect on neighboring farms. The crops are your property, but I think that it would be just to restrict their growth so that neighboring farms are not pollinated by them.

[QuantumIguana]

Originally Posted by Harry_Y

I was smart enough to buy a House in a neighbor hood without busy bodies

Oh, I wouldn't live in a neighborhood where you were restricted in what you could do with your house. The first thing I did when I moved in my house was to put a pink flamingo in my front yard, just because I could.

But the right to property has never been absolute. No one fought and died over local restrictions on what I could do in my yard. I'll get a fine if I don't eventually cut my grass.

[nogle]

Originally Posted by QuantumIguana

And he we are back to your book commissar idea. ...

We don't need book commissars or gulags.

I disagree. We need a gulag to hold Giggles and the library I as book commissar select for him.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by Harry_Y

Nothing unethical about transferring ownership of something I own.

It is foolishness to think that somehow someone should
tell me what I can or cannot do with my property.



The Entitlement mentality is going to be the death of civilization.

The problem with the above is that the content contained inside the book does not belong to you, you are merely reading it. To just blindly give it away without thinking of those who had a hand in the content's creation is foolish.

[petrucci]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

The problem with the above is that the content contained inside the book does not belong to you, you are merely reading it. To just blindly give it away without thinking of those who had a hand in the content's creation is foolish.

I agree with this in concept. However, in practice it is difficult to create a fair means of compensating authors.

[Harry_Y]

I was going to recycle my old car tires but since that
would hurt the creators I've decided to burn them instead.












.

[danskmacabre]

Originally Posted by Harry_Y

I was going to recycle my old car tires but since that
would hurt the creators I've decided to burn them instead.

That's not quite the same tho.
The tyres once they're worn out will no longer function in the purpose they were created, so recycling them (to be broken down and used for something else) isn't going to hurt the tyre manufacturers.
Although I appreciate you're only joking.

[Harry_Y]

Originally Posted by danskmacabre

That's not quite the same tho.
The tyres once they're worn out will no longer function in the purpose they were created, so recycling them (to be broken down and used for something else) isn't going to hurt the tyre manufacturers.
Although I appreciate you're only joking.

You caught me, I was being a smart a _ _.

The point I was trying to make is simple, When I sell something
I produce I have sold it and I no longer have control over it.

Now if I manufacture a hammer, and you buy one and use it,
and then loan it to your neighbor (or give it to him) there is no
problem since you no longer have it to use. Now if you make an
exact copy of that hammer and sell it there is an infringement.

So if I buy a book I can do as I please with it, read it , burn it, give
it away, or whatever I please, BUT if I copy it then give it away or
sell it. Then I am infringing.


PS: I'd never burn tires

[danskmacabre]

Originally Posted by Harry_Y

You caught me before the edit, I was being a smart a _ _.

Heh, caught you!

The point I was trying to make is simple, When I sell something
I produce I have sold it and I no longer have control over it.
Now if I manufacture a hammer, and you buy one and use it,
and then loan it to your neighbor (or give it to him) there is no
problem since you no longer have it to use. Now if you make an
exact copy of that hammer and sell it there is an infringement.
So if I buy a book I can do as I please with it, read it , burn it, give
it away, or whatever I please, BUT if I copy it then give it away or
sell it. Then I am infringing.

Yes you're right, but some authors have deliberately released their work onto torrent sites and have got improved sales out of it. So there's evidence that ebooks sales can be improved by them being available freely online. Whether by honesty or by getting people interested in your first few books and getting a following and then hopefully they'll buy more of your books.

An example of this is with myself. There's a tabletop Roleplaying game called "Eclipse phase" you can download the entire PDF for free from their site and ALL the supporting material for it for free.
I never would have bought the physical book as I don't know anyone who has it or played it to recommend it to me.
But having downloaded the PDF quite legally I checked out the game, liked it and since then I have bought the physical copy.

Had there been no physical copy available and I decided to use it in my gaming in purely a PDF format (unlikely as game books are not really ereader friendly) I would have donated some money to the makers of the game.. Now I appreciate that many WOULDN'T have done this, but I think more than you think would pay up. As gaming material for that game will just stop being made if it's not economically viable, so it's in the interests of fans of that book to support it.

The same goes for gaming licenses, my kids and I play Minecraft fairly regularly. Now Minecraft is trivially easy to pirate, but I have chosen to buy licenses for myself and my kids as I want to it be supported.
The guy who made minecraft is a VERY rich man atm, so that model of not packing lots of DRM into his game and not worrying about illegal copies seems to be doing well.

[Harry_Y]

Originally Posted by danskmacabre

Heh, caught you!



Yes you're right, but some authors have deliberately released their work onto torrent sites and have got improved sales out of it. So there's evidence that ebooks sales can be improved by them being available freely online. Whether by honesty or by getting people interested in your first few books and getting a following and then hopefully they'll buy more of your books.

------ Snip ------

Actually an awful lot of the authors I have been
introduced to have been via a "loaned book".

So had I not been loaned (or given) that book I
wound not have ever bought more from that author.

So in the long run the authors have made money
from me because i was loaned a book by them.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by petrucci

I agree with this in concept. However, in practice it is difficult to create a fair means of compensating authors.

Not really, Amazon seems to be trying with their KDP Select program, I'm not sure how well it's working and it probably needs some work, but its quite possible to create this fair means you speak of. Of course the current system will be completely disrupted and those who are supported by the current system will probably be upset...

[QuantumIguana]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

Not really, Amazon seems to be trying with their KDP Select program, I'm not sure how well it's working and it probably needs some work, but its quite possible to create this fair means you speak of. Of course the current system will be completely disrupted and those who are supported by the current system will probably be upset...

If authors voluntarily choose to participate in KDP Select, and readers voluntarily choose to participate in Amazon Prime, that's their business. You would leave authors and readers no choice, and instead have a dictator decide who gets compensated and how much compensation they get.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by QuantumIguana

If authors voluntarily choose to participate in KDP Select, and readers voluntarily choose to participate in Amazon Prime, that's their business. You would leave authors and readers no choice, and instead have a dictator decide who gets compensated and how much compensation they get.

The choice is whether or not to upload to the network, why barricade ourselves behind extra and unnecessary meaningless filters?

You believe that I should not be able to read something unless I pay for it beforehand, your belief is wrong.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

The choice is whether or not to upload to the network, why barricade ourselves behind extra and unnecessary meaningless filters?

You believe that I should not be able to read something unless I pay for it beforehand, your belief is wrong.

I believe that you should get your reading materiel by legitimate means, whether by buying, borrowing, finding it on a park bench etc.

If I was to condone stealing it would be theft of food by a starving person or similiar acts of desperation by those who have no choice.

To steal a book because you want that book and you want it now is pure self indulgence when there are so many books available through libraries, public domain, free giveaways, family, friends etc.

If you want the book that badly then surely it must be worth paying for.

Your belief is wrong, wrong, wrong! And if there was a good chance you would be punished severely, you probably wouldn't do it.

Helen

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

If I was to condone stealing it would be theft of food by a starving person or similiar acts of desperation by those who have no choice.

I also condone darknet downloading by people who live in countries where censorship or currency controls make it impossible to legally obtain a wide range of literature. But if you live in the United States, Canada, or Britain, where almost everyone has access to millions of titles via inter-library loan, there is nothing to condone.