Interesting Op-Ed Piece about the St Louis County Library

[Harry_Y]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

"homework helpers" -- why aren't public schools providing this help?

"PCs and printers" -- why are community centers providing this service?

"resumes and jobs" -- why isn't the unemployment office providing this service?

This is why I refuse to support library bond issues. Libraries aren't schools, community centers, or unemployment offices. I'm all in favor of these services, but I want them done by the proper government agencies and not by libraries. If we're going to continue to blur the lines of responsibility, then we should combine public libraries, public schools, community centers, and unemployment offices into one massive government agency.

The issue I have with this is why should others (the taxpayers) have to foot the bill for
this. How is it right to take from one man and give to another for these "extra" services.

[elcreative]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Just what is the role of libraries in the digital age - books? all media? student centers? job centers? tax centers? community centers? or all of it? And if it's all of it, then shouldn't the separate government agencies that currently perform these functions be combined to better utilize tax dollars?

Originally Posted by Harry_Y

The issue I have with this is why should others (the taxpayers) have to foot the bill for
this. How is it right to take from one man and give to another for these "extra" services.

Yes, it's definitely not part of the government's job to help out children of totally inadequate parenting, they should be left to suffer for the failings of their parents so I think you should also shut all the libraries, remove all programs for helping poor children, insist on them going down the mines or something else useful like chimney cleaning rather than trying to improve their lot and being helped because their problems are not of their making...

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by Harry_Y

The issue I have with this is why should others (the taxpayers) have to foot the bill for
this. How is it right to take from one man and give to another for these "extra" services.

Because we live in a society that helps the disadvantaged.

[wizwor]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Just what is the role of libraries in the digital age - books? all media? student centers? job centers? tax centers? community centers? or all of it? And if it's all of it, then shouldn't the separate government agencies that currently perform these functions be combined to better utilize tax dollars?

There is no role in modern society for the public library. Libraries were created to provide access to information -- education. Today, we have schools and the internet. Both do a better job than the public library. Realizing this, the libraries decided to compete with blockbuster. Netflix is a better deal.

Time to close the libraries.

[Rylon]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Just what is the role of libraries in the digital age - books? all media? student centers? job centers? tax centers? community centers? or all of it? And if it's all of it, then shouldn't the separate government agencies that currently perform these functions be combined to better utilize tax dollars?

Well, it's my understanding that they've been a combination of all of the above for decades. The libraries I grew up with offered all kinds of services.

When I lived in Texas 20 years ago, the local library offered VHS tapes and audio books on tape and CD. You could also check out film strips, and software.

The main library in San Jose, where I spent my summers, used to let people check out chess sets. I once spent a whole summer playing chess and reading chess books. Great times.

Today I do see homework help going on at libraries. As well as literacy programs. Also, libraries are often attached to community centers and special events are promoted there. I don't see paper books going away anytime soon. Every time I go to a library, I see people checking out paper books. Also, when I look in the card catalog (well, online catalog) a lot of times I see the book I want checked out.

If anything, St. Louis is behind the curve on this by decades. Unless Library District Director Charles Pace is just talking out of his bum. I mean, if it just got remodeled nine months ago, then I suspect that they don't need the money for a brand new HQ. I know public building designed in the 1960s aren't exactly the pretty places to be in, but the remodel should have fixed some of that. If it didn't, then I wouldn't trust them to design a new one.

[VaporPunk]

Originally Posted by wizwor

There is no role in modern society for the public library. Libraries were created to provide access to information -- education. Today, we have schools and the internet. Both do a better job than the public library. Realizing this, the libraries decided to compete with blockbuster. Netflix is a better deal.

Time to close the libraries.

Libraries offer access to the internet that many families can't afford at home, if they even have one these days.
Study after study confirms that money spent on educating children pays for itself in the long run, educated kids find better jobs, get into trouble less, etc... Ideally, parents like Harry_Y encourage kids to read and learn. Some kids aren't that lucky. Do we punish them for having bad parents or do we give them access to places where they can learn and be supervised while doing so?

1 in 7 adults lack basic prose literacy skills.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by Rylon

The main library in San Jose, where I spent my summers, used to let people check out chess sets. I once spent a whole summer playing chess and reading chess books. Great times.

Today I do see homework help going on at libraries. As well as literacy programs. Also, libraries are often attached to community centers and special events are promoted there. I don't see paper books going away anytime soon. Every time I go to a library, I see people checking out paper books. Also, when I look in the card catalog (well, online catalog) a lot of times I see the book I want checked out.

Chess belongs in a community center, while homework help and literacy programs belong in the public schools. Libraries are in a budget crunch. It's time to jettison programs they have no business running and send them to the agencies that should've been running them all along.

[wizwor]

Originally Posted by VaporPunk

Libraries offer access to the internet that many families can't afford at home, if they even have one these days.
Study after study confirms that money spent on educating children pays for itself in the long run, educated kids find better jobs, get into trouble less, etc... Ideally, parents like Harry_Y encourage kids to read and learn. Some kids aren't that lucky. Do we punish them for having bad parents or do we give them access to places where they can learn and be supervised while doing so?

1 in 7 adults lack basic prose literacy skills.

As I said, we have public schools.

[VaporPunk]

Originally Posted by wizwor

As I said, we have public schools.

Which are only open during school hours...

Also, what about pre-school age children? Young adults who've graduated from HS but are unemployed?

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by VaporPunk

Which are only open during school hours...

They can stay open longer if need be. Libraries have no business helping students with their homework or providing literacy programs. Those programs should handled by and paid for by the school districts.

If libraries are going to continue providing such services, then funding to cover these programs should be taken from the school districts.

Until libraries get their act together, I'll continue to vote against all funding bills for them.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by VaporPunk

Also, what about pre-school age children? Young adults who've graduated from HS but are unemployed?

Pre-school? Public schools again.

Unemployed? The unemployment office.

Originally Posted by Harry_Y

The issue I have with this is why should others (the taxpayers) have to foot the bill for
this. How is it right to take from one man and give to another for these "extra" services.

It is done in order to avoid turning into one of those countries that don't provide public services. Then again, you may not have heard of those places because those people rarely have a voice: they usually live in abject poverty and are frequently ruled by warlords.

I've also found that "corrupt politicians" are often more enlightened than "honest taxpayers" in such matters since they understand that certain institutions are necessary to support economic and political stability.

[VaporPunk]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

They can stay open longer if need be.

OT to teachers + school librarians, increased utility bills, maintenance bills, etc... Would it be more cost-efficient to the taxpayer or less? After all the library is already open. Also, teachers spend more time working out of class then in class already. Might depend on the district. I doubt that a single "Cookie Cutter" solution fits all.

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Libraries have no business helping students with their homework or providing literacy programs. Those programs should handled by and paid for by the school districts.
If libraries are going to continue providing such services, then funding to cover these programs should be taken from the school districts. Until libraries get their act together, I'll continue to vote against all funding bills for them.

I disagree with the first part of the above. Volunteers should play a role though, it doesn't just have to be about money.
I don't know enough about funding, but again I suspect it differs by school district and wonder about which path is more beneficial to the taxpayer and the students/people in need. I doubt that a single "Cookie Cutter" solution fits all.

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Pre-school? Public schools again.

Unemployed? The unemployment office.

Does your state provide free pre-school? Not all states do. A library, depending on the programs it offers, can be a great place for toddlers to get their first taste of reading.

I mostly agree with you here. But some unemployment offices are well equipped to help. Some are not. Again, if you already have a public location where people can get access to information, especially when other government offices are not open (weekends), I'm all for it.

At least we agree on the goal, not necessarily the method...

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by VaporPunk

At least we agree on the goal, not necessarily the method...

That we do.

Libraries are strapped for cash these days and if they're going to become community centers, then I suggest they start charging other government agencies for the services they're performing on their behalf. I don't want the budget for books cut in order for them to continue providing "other" services.

[JeremyR]

I live in St. Louis; my mother worked as a librarian for St. Louis County for something like 35 years. It's seriously screwed up.

For one, besides a lot of management problems (which are quite lurid, she was at HQ, too, this place that they want to rebuild. Imagine a soap opera with people sleeping with each other left and right and all sorts of drama), there is a focus on things besides books - internet, as mentioned, but also DVDs. For a long time they were essentially acting as the DVD rental store for the region.

I literally have 1000s of empty DVD cases that she would bring home to me (since otherwise they would be thrown out). The vast majority were hollywood blockbusters.

Walk into a library in the system and will you find a book by a classic SF writer? Probably not. But you will find most of William Shatner's novels.