DOJ suing Apple over ebooks.

[ProfCrash]

When people notice DRM/formats issues is when they own say a Kindle and see Kobo's big sale on The Hunger Games Trilogy and realize they cannot buy from Kobo because of the DRM and format incompatibility. It can bite people sooner and more often then we think. all it takes is an eBook shop selling something for less then Amazon or they see eBooks sold by Amazon that are not available at other shops in ePub. There's only one perfect solution. ePub with no DRM. Then the customers can shop where they want without having to worry about DRM & format. It's then all about price.

I have a sneaking suspision that Amazon will match all offers by other bookstores. We know that they have an alogrithm that searches the web for prices and lowers books from Independent Authors to match the lowest price that was available. Do you really think Amazon is going to let Kobo sell a book for less than Amazon?

I don't think so.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by stonetools

But actually that was what happened.
1.Macmillan went to Amazon by itself and said that it was hereby offering its books on an agency basis.
2. Amazon pulled Macmillan titles.
3.After 48 hours, Amazon caved.
4. 4 other BPHs went to Amazion and got Amazon to agree to terms
5. Random House stayed out for a year, but then went to agency.

I know the mythology is that all of the Agency 5 went to Amazon together and demanded that Amazon submit to the agency model, but that's not what happened

1) you're completely dismissing the DOJ's claim that Apple assured Penguin that they would be 1 of 4 signing the agreement? How convenient.

2) Macmillan didn't have to "hold the fort" for the three months you were suggesting. The only reason they "took on amazon by themselves" is because they knew the other three were on board already.

But actually that was what happened.

This is the only mythology I'm seeing around here.

[kennyc]

Well, there'll be no caving now.

[JoeD]

Originally Posted by stonetools

But actually that was what happened.
1.Macmillan went to Amazon by itself and said that it was hereby offering its books on an agency basis.

Check the timeline, it may be that Macmillan went to amazon with that offer knowing the rest of the publishers had their back and were going to do exactly the same when their contracts came up for renewal.

[JoeD]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

I have a sneaking suspision that Amazon will match all offers by other bookstores. We know that they have an alogrithm that searches the web for prices and lowers books from Independent Authors to match the lowest price that was available. Do you really think Amazon is going to let Kobo sell a book for less than Amazon?

I don't think so.

Kobo don't always have to drop a book price though. They can offer promo codes, vouchers, loyalty programs. Any of which could allow a customer to get cheaper books than amazon. Of course Amazon could decide to institute a similar program.

I hope what it will encourage is for stores to compete on services beyond just the ebook catalogue and price. Not sure what form that might take, but better reviews, editorial content, social aspects (amazon is ahead in that sense atm) and who knows what other new services might spring up to aid competition with other retailers.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

I have a sneaking suspision that Amazon will match all offers by other bookstores. We know that they have an alogrithm that searches the web for prices and lowers books from Independent Authors to match the lowest price that was available. Do you really think Amazon is going to let Kobo sell a book for less than Amazon?

I don't think so.

Amazon will match prices from the major stores; they won't be able to match prices at all the smaller, more independent stores--especially indie publisher stores. (Not that they won't be able to afford them, but that they won't be able to *find* all of them. Although it's already had problems with pricematching the wrong book, having a wholesale model for sales would fix that.)

Indie publishers could set their own prices lower, if they were working on the wholesale model: Amazon pays them $X per book, and marks the book up to a standard of $X*1.425, and then discounts to whatever they like--as long as they pay the publisher $X per copy sold. Publisher has the option of selling at $X at their own site.

Right now, only the publishers who've been dropped from agency pricing will have this ability; KDP and other contracts are still set at "agency pricing, and Amazon drops the price to match whatever else it finds." But plenty of small publishers will be clamoring for the right to set a minimum price received for their books, and will bring up the argument that only allowing wholesale pricing for BPHs is stifling competition.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by abookreader

I agree to an extent
I think that if somebody is just looking for a book to read and they glance at the top 10 of the NYT Bestseller list and see 7 priced at $9.99 and 3 priced at $14.99 - my guess is the lower priced books will sell.

I made the prediction back in 2010 that Agency pricing was never going to keep prices high - not because of the illegality of it but simply because of the absolute flood of low priced books coming online.

In my opinion that doesn't change now. I really believe that as more and more people discover they don't have to buy $15 books to find a good book, that is when the true Publishing revolution will begin.

We'll see. The last two years have shown that people willl pay 12.99,14.99, and even 19.99 for a Steven King, a GRRM, or a Ken Follet. If I was Random House, I would be pretty confident that I could still charge a premium price for the top authors.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by JoeD

Kobo don't always have to drop a book price though. They can offer promo codes, vouchers, loyalty programs. Any of which could allow a customer to get cheaper books than amazon. Of course Amazon could decide to institute a similar program.

I hope what it will encourage is for stores to compete on services beyond just the ebook catalogue and price. Not sure what form that might take, but better reviews, editorial content, social aspects (amazon is ahead in that sense atm) and who knows what other new services might spring up to aid competition with other retailers.

Unfortunately, this is exactly what is likely NOT to happpen now. All those things you mention take money-money likely to be devoted now to matching Amazon price discounts.
Independent booksellers have tried to compete against Amazon by offering better book recommendation services- and customershave browsed their shelves, listened to their knowledgeable and friendly staff-and gone home to buy from Amazon.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

1) you're completely dismissing the DOJ's claim that Apple assured Penguin that they would be 1 of 4 signing the agreement? How convenient.

2) Macmillan didn't have to "hold the fort" for the three months you were suggesting. The only reason they "took on amazon by themselves" is because they knew the other three were on board already.


This is the only mythology I'm seeing around here.

We don't know what that agreement was. Was the agreement simply to enter into an agency contract with Apple? If so, that's legal.
Let's wait three weeks for the defense answer before rushing to judgment. Bettyer still just wait for the litigation process to work itself out.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by JoeD

Check the timeline, it may be that Macmillan went to amazon with that offer knowing the rest of the publishers had their back and were going to do exactly the same when their contracts came up for renewal.

Macmillan's CEO flatly denies this. At this point, we just don't know.

[Barcey]

Originally Posted by stonetools

But actually that was what happened.
1.Macmillan went to Amazon by itself and said that it was hereby offering its books on an agency basis.
2. Amazon pulled Macmillan titles.
3.After 48 hours, Amazon caved.
4. 4 other BPHs went to Amazion and got Amazon to agree to terms
5. Random House stayed out for a year, but then went to agency.

I know the mythology is that all of the Agency 5 went to Amazon together and demanded that Amazon submit to the agency model, but that's not what happened

This is false. Try this.

1) The iPad is launched showing ebooks priced at $14.99
2) Walt Mossberg asks Steve Jobs the obvious question. Why would she buy a book from you at $14.99 when she can buy the book at Amazon for $9.99.
3) Steve Jobs replies that the prices will be the same.
4) Walt asks if that means your price will be $9.99 or Amazons price will be $14.99
5) Steve Jobs replies that the price will be the same and then states that the publishers are going to pull their books from Amazon.

Evidence

http://allthingsd.com/20100128/boomt...ve-jobs-cameo/

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Let's wait three weeks for the defense answer before rushing to judgment. Bettyer still just wait for the litigation process to work itself out.

I like it... let's both agree to completely shut up about the subject on MobileRead until such time as the litigation process is done and a judge has made a determination. What do you say? You and I... not one more peep. Deal?

[heySkippy]

Originally Posted by Barcey

2) Walt Mossberg asks Steve Jobs the obvious question. Why would she buy a book from you at $14.99 when she can buy the book at Amazon for $9.99.

Huh, I always just assumed Walt was a guy. Go figure...

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I like it... let's both agree to completely shut up about the subject on MobileRead until such time as the litigation process is done and a judge has made a determination. What do you say? You and I... not one more peep. Deal?

The final peep

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by stonetools

We'll see. The last two years have shown that people willl pay 12.99,14.99, and even 19.99 for a Steven King, a GRRM, or a Ken Follet. If I was Random House, I would be pretty confident that I could still charge a premium price for the top authors.

For top authors: yes. King's new book can be $14.99 or $22.99 and it will still sell millions.

It's the midlist authors who'll be squeezed out if Random House won't drop their prices to match the competition, and they'll make plenty of noise about it. While that might be all they're able to do, depending on how draconian their contracts are, it'll certainly convince new authors that Random House is not where they want to be.