Can e-Publishing Overcome Copyright Concerns?

[Lemurion]

If we look back far enough there have always been two strands of political thought: Conservative and Liberal. Please note that I am using liberal in its traditional meaning not as the pejorative it seems to have become among many Americans.

Both groups want the best for everyone, but they have different approaches and priorities.

Conservatives seek to prevent us from falling into Hell.

Liberals seek to allow us to rise up to Heaven.

Historically conservatives have avoided change because it might make things worse while liberals have embraced it because it might make things better.

The internet is one of those changes.

Some people, including most publishers, approach e-books from a very conservative standpoint. They seek controls because they are concerned with avoiding loss. Other people and publishers seek to open their products because they are more concerned with increasing profit.

Along comes the internet, and with it the darknet.

There is no debate of the fact that there are e-books downloaded from the darknet. There is also no debate that some of those books are not read (a simple comparison of the average person's reading speed and the number of books downloaded proves that).

What is not known, is how many are read, and how many of those books would have been bought otherwise. What is also not known is whether darknet downloading does in fact convert to a loss of sales, an increase in sales, or no change in sales.

We do know (as Eric Flint has provided the numbers) that a free legal download of a novel can spur paper sales, though we do not know the same for the darknet.

As others have said there is no way to quantify the effect of the darknet, and no way to prove it's the same for books as it is for music.

Eventually we will reach a balance. The only questions are what balance and when.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by nekokami

Regarding the "money in the crowd" scenario, since money is deliberately made scarce, I don't think you can compare it to ebooks. Your analogy to the soda with the recipe on the side is more apt-- and I think the soda bottler would still make money in that scenario, so long as the product tasted good and was reasonably priced. There are a lot of things I could do for myself that I pay someone else to do, like make clothing (or weave cloth or spin yarn, for that matter -- I know how to do those things). I pay someone else so I can have consistent quality and spend my time doing other things. The darknet is not user-friendly. Amazon is. If I could get replacements for my paper books in a non-DRM format at a reputable book seller for the prices you charge, I don't think I'd even bother with the darknet, even for books I'd already purchased. It would take a while, but I'd gradually replace my entire collection with well-formatted, legal ebooks-- and never look back. And I don't think I'm all that unusual.

You aren't. I also pay other people to do things I could do, because my time is limited and I can't do everything, and wouldn't want to if I could.

And there are things I could get from the darknet I don't want because of time. There are folks who scan paper books and post plain text versions to various newsgroups. I could grab the plain text version and convert it to a properly formatted ebook, but it would be more of my time and trouble than it's worth, and reading in plain text is unsatisfactory. If I want it that bad, I'll buy the paper edition. For me, ebooks are an additional format, not a replacement for paper.

Take a look at Linux, as an example. It's free, but takes some extra work to set up, even new "user-friendly" versions like Ubuntu, and then every task takes that bit of extra effort to figure out how to do if you're used to a commercial OS. But it's free, right? Wouldn't you think Microsoft would be completely out of business by now? Ok, MS may be engaging in non-competitive practices with regards to bundling Windows licenses on new machines, but apparently there are people out there who have paid to install Vista, when they could have gone to Linux and gotten more functionality for free.

Free is relative. What value do you place on your time?

I could install and run Linux. I'm a *nix sysadmin, and know enough to do it. I don't bother on the desktop because I don't wish to invest the time in getting Linux running, then finding and installing applications to do what I do on Windows. I've got XP Pro tweaked the way I like it, and applications that handle what I want to do (most of which are freeware and open source as well), and Windows versions of critical *nix tools like the bash shell when I need to do something the *nix way.

MS isn't worried about the desktop. They're worried about the data center, where *nix leads.

As far as I can tell, all authors and publishers need to do to ensure sales is offer a good product at a good price, with--very important-- a good user experience during the sale and use of the product.

Correct. Offer a product I want to buy. Price it fairly. Make it easy for me to buy it from you, and easy to use when I have it. You have a sale.

The first is something publishers have to do in any case: publish books people want to read.

The second is an issue when publishers think they can price an electronic edition the same as a hardcover (or even a mass market PB.)

The third is a problem because publishers aren't set up to sell directly to consumers and don't know how to do it. They may actually offer electronic versions, but ti can be a challenge navigating their website to find them, and a larger one to buy what you've found.

The fourth will hopefully be addressed by standards. I want to buy electronic copy once, and read it on whatever I happen to have at hand. This means I need a format supported by viewers in PCs, PDAs, smart phones, and blackberries, and DRM that lets me read the book on more than one device.

We'll see.
______
Dennis

[nekokami]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

The third is a problem because publishers aren't set up to sell directly to consumers and don't know how to do it. They may actually offer electronic versions, but ti can be a challenge navigating their website to find them, and a larger one to buy what you've found.

I think this could be solved by standards too. There have been several formats that have been distributed by multiple websites. The much maligned PDF is one. Mobi is another. I don't see any reason publishers couldn't generate the files and pass them off to online sellers like Amazon. Getting electronic content into brick-and-mortar stores wouldn't be that hard either-- it would just take some imagination (in-store wireless networks, cheap smart cards with a deposit/return scheme, USB download... they all have strengths and weaknesses, but they're all doable.)

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

The fourth will hopefully be addressed by standards. I want to buy electronic copy once, and read it on whatever I happen to have at hand. This means I need a format supported by viewers in PCs, PDAs, smart phones, and blackberries, and DRM that lets me read the book on more than one device.

I don't trust any DRM for this. I have enough trouble reading files from old versions of word processors. I want my books in a completely open, public standard, with no encryption. And I don't think it's needed, in any case.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

The third is a problem because publishers aren't set up to sell directly to consumers and don't know how to do it. They may actually offer electronic versions, but ti can be a challenge navigating their website to find them, and a larger one to buy what you've found.

Good point. Maybe that's the publisher's problem in a nutshell.

This is probably why Amazon's Kindle service will do well: It solves the publisher's problem by letting Amazon do the heavy lifting, and to a publisher, the experience is similar enough to the bulk retailer model to be within their comfort level. And Kindle customers don't seem to be too upset by Kindle's built-in security, thanks to the relative ease of the buying process.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by nekokami

Getting electronic content into brick-and-mortar stores wouldn't be that hard either-- it would just take some imagination (in-store wireless networks, cheap smart cards with a deposit/return scheme, USB download... they all have strengths and weaknesses, but they're all doable.)

I agree. Walking into a store with your reader, negotiating the sale, and arranging for the book to be downloaded into your reader should be relatively easy to set up (given standardized formats and hardwired/wireless transfer systems).

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Good point. Maybe that's the publisher's problem in a nutshell.

Well, one of their problems

This is probably why Amazon's Kindle service will do well: It solves the publisher's problem by letting Amazon do the heavy lifting, and to a publisher, the experience is similar enough to the bulk retailer model to be within their comfort level. And Kindle customers don't seem to be too upset by Kindle's built-in security, thanks to the relative ease of the buying process.

Exactly. As mentioned, publishers are used to dealing with Amazon. Amazon is effectively a big retailer, and they ship to distributors and big retail chains all the time.

Amazon handles sales and fulfillment, and remits the agreed upon percentage to the publisher. Sales taxes are also Amazon's problem.
______
Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by nekokami

I think this could be solved by standards too. There have been several formats that have been distributed by multiple websites. The much maligned PDF is one. Mobi is another. I don't see any reason publishers couldn't generate the files and pass them off to online sellers like Amazon.

Agreed, once they generate them.

I'm cynical about ePub as an end-user format, but from what I know, it might be a perfect intermediate format. Once you have the book in ePub format, all the elements are there that you might want, and converting from ePub to Mobipocket, Sony LRF or what have you should be fairly trivial.

And Adobe Indesign creates ePub formatted files, and lots of folks already use InDesign for publishing markup.

Getting electronic content into brick-and-mortar stores wouldn't be that hard either-- it would just take some imagination (in-store wireless networks, cheap smart cards with a deposit/return scheme, USB download... they all have strengths and weaknesses, but they're all doable.)

Yep. I believe Barnes and Noble was experimenting with some takes on that.

I don't trust any DRM for this. I have enough trouble reading files from old versions of word processors. I want my books in a completely open, public standard, with no encryption. And I don't think it's needed, in any case.

DRM is the fly in that ointment. I don't like DRM either, but I fear we'll be stuck with some form of it. I more or less favor the Mobipocket format because Mobi will let me register up to five devices, and read a Mobi edition on any of them.
______
Dennis

[zelda_pinwheel]

i sincerely think we'll be able to get rid of drm eventually. look at the music industry, and wasn't there just an article about an audio books publisher abandoning drm ? i just hope they figure things out *quicker* than the music industry (you'd think they'd be paying attention there ; they might learn something).

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

I'm cynical about ePub as an end-user format, but from what I know, it might be a perfect intermediate format. Once you have the book in ePub format, all the elements are there that you might want, and converting from ePub to Mobipocket, Sony LRF or what have you should be fairly trivial.

If a purchased ePub doc was registered to you upon purchase, and could be converted for any device you owned, that might solve most of the copy protection concerns. Mind you, it would probably require keeping an updated list of every device you own, which, if you think about it, is telling someone else what devices you have (one of those privacy things). But if you're okay with that, it should work.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

If a purchased ePub doc was registered to you upon purchase, and could be converted for any device you owned, that might solve most of the copy protection concerns. Mind you, it would probably require keeping an updated list of every device you own, which, if you think about it, is telling someone else what devices you have (one of those privacy things). But if you're okay with that, it should work.

I don't care about people knowing what devices I own.

But see my comment about ePub being an intermediate format.

In my scenario, I don't use it: publishers do. They use it as a universal ebook markup format, and feed it to processes that take the ePub format as input and spit out Mobipocket, Sony LRF, and other electronic formats. I buy whichever format is supported on my devices. Conversion to that desired format is someone else's problem.

If ePub ever becomes enough of an adopted standard that everyone issues ePub format books, and ePub viewers are available for a wide range of devices, I can use an ePub document directly, and your suggestion becomes unnecessary.

I'm just cynical about that adoption of the standard happening any time soon.
______
Dennis

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

I don't care about people knowing what devices I own.

Based on many past comments by others, it is an issue for some.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

But see my comment about ePub being an intermediate format.

I'm hip. Personally, I think the publishers should just send you the ePub file... and let you, the consumer, feed it into whatever device you have that has preloaded conversion SW on-board. That way, if you want to read on two devices with two different formats, the publisher doesn't have to be bothered sending you 2 files... it's your job to convert it to whatever you use. And in the future, if you get a new device, just take out the original ePub and convert at will.

Not that it would kill the publishers, but the less complication for them, the more likely they'll provide us with value-added service. Trust me, I'd much rather send everyone an ePub file, then convert my books to half a dozen formats as they come out.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Not that it would kill the publishers, but the less complication for them, the more likely they'll provide us with value-added service. Trust me, I'd much rather send everyone an ePub file, then convert my books to half a dozen formats as they come out.

As it happens, I can do the format conversion. I have the software and technical skills. So could you. Most people couldn't, and shouldn't be expected to.

If you have a standard file format with all the necessary elements as an input format, translating that to half a dozen output formats is trivial. It can happen automatically as part of the same workflow that will also create the files sent to an imagesetter to be turned into plates for printing the paper edition.

All of it can be handled by the appropriate scripts. In my scenario, you use a tool to mark up the manuscript as desired, and press a Build button. The tool generates an ePub format, and hands it to a conversion tool that outputs the electronic formats you provide to customers. The same pipeline can contain a process that FTPs the built versions to the appropriate place on your website where they are available for purchase.

Once the process is set up and working correctly, intervention is minimal, and required only when something changes, like a change to the ePub format that will affect the conversion tool, or the addition or removal of output formats.
______
Dennis

[igorsk]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Agreed, once they generate them.

I'm cynical about ePub as an end-user format, but from what I know, it might be a perfect intermediate format. Once you have the book in ePub format, all the elements are there that you might want, and converting from ePub to Mobipocket, Sony LRF or what have you should be fairly trivial.

And Adobe Indesign creates ePub formatted files, and lots of folks already use InDesign for publishing markup.

BooksOnBoard is selling ePub books already, and they don't even use any custom wrapper a-la LIT or Mobi - just the same ePub-zip, only with HTML/picture files encrypted.

[nekokami]

Hm. But if you get ePub as your intermediate format, and the Mobipocket (or whatever) desktop software takes in the ePub file and loads the Mobi formatted version onto your reader, does it matter that it just did a conversion for you? I think a lot of people have or expect some kind of main computer book management system. (I don't, but I'm a geek. I also drive a stick shift by preference. )

If I had to have DRM, I suppose the eReader method of using a credit card number could be ok, but it still relies on some software being ported forward to any system I might want to use in the future. I'd rather not have to rely on that sort of goodwill (or longevity).

[pilotbob]

Steve and Dennis, you guys should just get on skype and let us know how it turns out.