DOJ suing Apple over ebooks.

[plib]

Originally Posted by tompe

Exactly how have that been seen? From my perspective it is still all about sustainability and long term survival or adaption to a book market that promotes good writing.

"Good writing" is a purely subjective decision. If you mean "good writing" in the classical elitist "literary" sense, approved by Pulitzer and such (some years) then that has always been a minority taste. The BPH couldn't exist in their current form if that was all they published, they have been supported financially by the mass market "popular" writing sold at a considerable profit.

Problem is popular authors don't need the BPH anymore.

There goes the BPH main financial profit support. They're worried they are about to see their chair collapse and they'll be on their ass on the floor. I think they're probably right. And I don't think there's much they're going to be able to do to avoid it.

[sabredog]

Originally Posted by tompe

This is irrelevant to my question. How has it been shown that for the publisher the agency thing was all about profit?

OF course it was!

We can see what the DoJ does to price fixers.

[HarryT]

If by "elitist literary sense" you mean "written using correct spelling, grammar and punctuation" then I agree that this is something that the majority of independent authors lack.

Whether or not one considers that to be a good or a bad thing is, I suppose a matter of personal taste. I'm partial to it personally, and I don't think there's the slightest chance that mainstream publishers are going to disappear.

[sabredog]

Originally Posted by HarryT

If by "elitist literary sense" you mean "written using correct spelling, grammar and punctuation" then I agree that this is something that the majority of independent authors lack.

Whether or not one considers that to be a good or a bad thing is, I suppose a matter of personal taste. I'm partial to it personally, and I don't think there's the slightest chance that mainstream publishers are going to disappear.

Very true. But a lot of better indie authors now are employing good editors.

You do not need a BPH to do any of that now. plib is correct when he states that even so called "popular" authors do not need the BPH's either.

Everything has changed in regards to how books are published, it remains to be seen of the BPH's evolve or become part of the fossil record.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by sabredog

Very true. But a lot of better indie authors now are employing good editors.

You do not need a BPH to do any of that now. plib is correct when he states that even so called "popular" authors do not need the BPH's either.

But many customers - myself included - prefer to buy from traditional publishers because it's a reasonable assurance of reasonable quality standards (I'm sure there are exceptions to that). A traditional publisher isn't going to invest money in publishing a book unless they think it will show a profit. I'm sorry to say this but they few independently-published books I've looked at have not been up to professional standards.

Price is not a consideration in book buying for me; quality is.

[plib]

Originally Posted by HarryT

If by "elitist literary sense" you mean "written using correct spelling, grammar and punctuation" then I agree that this is something that the majority of independent authors lack.

Whether or not one considers that to be a good or a bad thing is, I suppose a matter of personal taste. I'm partial to it personally, and I don't think there's the slightest chance that mainstream publishers are going to disappear.

No. I don't.

I mean authors like Bernard Cornwell, George R.R Martin, David Weber, John Grisham, Diana Gabaldon, Eric Flint, John Ringo, Lee Child, Mary Higgins Clark, Nora Roberts/J.D Robb, Rachel Maddow, James Patterson, Janet Evanovich, Michael Connelly, Stephen King, - add as many more as you like.

They don't need the BPH any more. Once their current contracts expire they can self publish and hit just as many Amazon best seller lists as they do now. Even the up and coming indies know they have more muscle in negotiations than at any time previously. What was it that it took a major publisher to hook Amanda Hocking? $2 million? And she was one of your indies who was presumably incapable of "using correct spelling, grammar and punctuation", who they only managed to catch at the top of the curve.

If the BPH want to catch/keep popular authors then they're going to pay through the nose or they're going to lose them, because they're not the only game in town any more. Either way their profits are going to take a major hit. They probably will survive in some form, but not in any way close to their present structure.

And books using "correct spelling, grammar and punctuation" will continue to be written. Just as they were long before the BPH ever existed.

[sabredog]

I would not consider quality to be something that the BPH's provide all the time either. There have been many, many threads regarding poor formatting, spelling and grammar issues from ebooks released from BPH's. So professional standards can be lacking from a author's ebook released by a BPH. Several months ago I had to use an old Kobo ePUB tool to remove the massive margins left and right on three ebooks (BHP trilogy) I spent $12.99 each on. So not professional at all.

As I said before, the better indies are using good editors now. Others such as Dan Worth, used a good editor from the get go.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by sabredog

As I said before, the better indies are using good editors now. Others such as Dan Worth, used a good editor from the get go.

I know that there are reputable independent authors. The issue for the reader is how to find them. If I buy a book from Tor, say, then I know that:

1. Tor are an SF/Fantasy imprint, so it's reasonably likely that I'm going to like the book.
2. I've read many Tor books, and I know from my own personal experience that they have good quality standards.

whereas if I looks at, say, Smashwords, I'll probably find 1000 SF/Fantasy novels, the overwhelming majority of which are going to be poorly written. How do I find the 5 good ones among the 995 others?

[cfrizz]

Please the BPH throw together their ebooks and there are just as many errors & poor quality as any self published work and for far more money. If they did a better job of quality control with their ebooks, I might have less objections.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by cfrizz

Please the BPH throw together their ebooks and there are just as many errors & poor quality as any self published work and for far more money.

My experience differs from yours, which is why personally I prefer to buy from traditional publishers. If you can find good independent authors, good for you.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by cfrizz

Please the BPH throw together their ebooks and there are just as many errors & poor quality as any self published work and for far more money. If they did a better job of quality control with their ebooks, I might have less objections.

Exactly. They farm all that work out anyway and expect to make their exorbitant profits from being a distribution company and controlling the authors rights through one-sided contracts.

[plib]

Originally Posted by HarryT

But many customers - myself included - prefer to buy from traditional publishers because it's a reasonable assurance of reasonable quality standards (I'm sure there are exceptions to that). A traditional publisher isn't going to invest money in publishing a book unless they think it will show a profit. I'm sorry to say this but they few independently-published books I've looked at have not been up to professional standards.

Price is not a consideration in book buying for me; quality is.

Many does not equal most. I think you may be generalizing from the particular. It is a mass market industry. Most book purchasers probably don't even know who the publisher is - certainly in my experience of generalizing from the particular.

Reasonable does not equal guaranteed (which many on the board have already attested).

There are numerous justifications for traditional publishing profit margins on this board on the grounds that the margins are necessary because publishers constantly publish books which don't make a profit.

The generators of "professional standards" are all BPH employees - editors, artists, proof readers, even marketroids. They can all be employed, as considered necessary, by authors - without incurring the overhead of CEOs, Manhattan offices and private dining rooms - resulting in a greater net return to the author.

Price does not necessarily equal quality.

There will undoubtedly be a shakeout period, we are experiencing it now, but change has come and will continue to come.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by HarryT

My experience differs from yours, which is why personally I prefer to buy from traditional publishers. If you can find good independent authors, good for you.

It's really only a matter of looking at Amazon's top 100. There are both independent and BPH controlled titles.

[sabredog]

By "experimenting" I have found excellent indie authors that are just as good as some of the authors published by BPH's, if not better.

Diamonds in the rough.

I have been extremely annoyed at paying AU18 for a book that was absolute drivel. If I only pay $3.99 for an indie published book that was as bad, then I have lost little.

I have enough favourite indie authors to keep me busy and fatter in wallet for a very, very long time.

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by plib

I believe they're saying the new retail price should be $10.

Thank you. Since the majority of books sell for $10 or less now, these media complaints were made in ignorance and probably written for ad dollars.