Used bookstores, harbors of piracy?

[danskmacabre]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It's the "passing on" side that's the subject of this thread, hence my wondering in what way the digital music industry was better than the digital book industry in that respect.

Like I've already said, you're right in that perspective. I digressed somewhat.

[danskmacabre]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

They already do, but you've absolutely no chance of it ever being sanctioned by publishers or enshrined in law. Everything is swinging in the opposite direction, you're more likely to see additional restrictions on what you can do with your digital files.

You don't know that and some people are fighting it:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...ere-almost.ars

[danskmacabre]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

Yes you own the book, the container for the art. But do you own the art?
In the premodern copyright era 1500-1700? The idea of intellectual property did not really exist, at least in law. A book was a book, both the container and the art contained within. Only in the modern copyright era 1700-1900? was a book divided into the container, the paper, and the ideas contained on the pages.
I suppose we are now in the postmodern era of copyright, all that exists is the idea, the text. Previous laws do not apply.

IMO of course I own the book, the paper and what's contained on it.
I can give it away as I please.. It's of course easier to ensure I don't copy it and give it away with physical books as opposed to ebooks and I can understand publishers concerns about this.
When an Author distributes a physical book for people to read, he has to accept that the type of media it is means it's very likely going to be passed around.
I DO think I should be legally allowed to GIVE an ebook to someone else, ensuring I then delete my copy of it.

But then these days for some, it's just all about the money and squeezing as much as they can get away with, rather than the art.

However I appreciate in most cases those who GIVE an ebook to someone else is likely not going to delete their copy on an honesty basis. So Ebooks are a complicated issue.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by danskmacabre

You don't know that and some people are fighting it:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...ere-almost.ars

They'll never be able to match the amount of money the record corporations will throw at squashing it.

[danskmacabre]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

They'll never be able to match the amount of money the record corporations will throw at squashing it.

Maybe, maybe not, time will tell, but it's a start and other people, companies etc will keep chipping away at it.

[plib]

Originally Posted by danskmacabre

Maybe, maybe not, time will tell, but it's a start and other people, companies etc will keep chipping away at it.

The Grauniad thinks some others, including some very big companies, already are:

The online copyright war: the day the internet hit back at big media

[Format C:]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

I have been thinking a bit lately about the ethics of selling used books.
...

It's very simple, actually.

If I buy thoousands of used books for 3€ each, read some of them, and resell them all on ebay for 6-8€ each, I'm doing nothing illegal or ethically wrong, and I'm reagarded as a good e-businessman, even if I'm making money from the work of authors without rewarding them.

If I download a bunch of ebooks from Megaupload, do not read them, do not share them and do not sell them, I'm not taking any advantage at all, but I'm a pirate, a criminal, a parasite and I deserve some jail time.

Point is, "digital" and "Internet" are always aggravating circumstances in modern ethics.



[OT]
Try this experiment:

Joe takes pictures of naked kids in his home. He develops his film and send photos by mail.

Jack takes pictures of naked kids with his 24MP DSLR, optimize them with photoshop and put them in a blog.

Now rethink your first reaction: which one of them you'd like to punish the harder?

[Soldim]

Originally Posted by Format C:

If I download a bunch of ebooks from Megaupload, do not read them, do not share them and do not sell them, I'm not taking any advantage at all, but I'm a pirate, a criminal, a parasite and I deserve some jail time.

Depends on your jurisdiction -- where I live that is perfectly legal. Even if you would read them

[Rob Lister]

Originally Posted by Soldim

Depends on your jurisdiction -- where I live that is perfectly legal. Even if you would read them

Your comment made me google that. A very progressive system, that. Your entertainment industry must hate it.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by danskmacabre

IMO of course I own the book, the paper and what's contained on it.

I DO think I should be legally allowed to GIVE an ebook to someone else, ensuring I then delete my copy of it.

However I appreciate in most cases those who GIVE an ebook to someone else is likely not going to delete their copy on an honesty basis. So Ebooks are a complicated issue.

But that is just your opinion, our culture's ideas are an amalgamation of all opinions.

How often do you reread books? Besides the few that you reread on a regular basis? I imagine the percentage of books that are reread is statistically insignificant when compared to the number of books that are read. So theoretically, it shouldn't matter whether or not you delete "your" copy of the ebook. Most ebooks will simply languish in the recesses of a hard drive after one read. Is this forced imprisonment of an idea ethical? Doubtful, but of course we must think of the creator.

[QuantumIguana]

I suppose which side of the road you drive on is just an opinion too. Good luck with that.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by QuantumIguana

I suppose which side of the road you drive on is just an opinion too. Good luck with that.

Well, yes it is. Unfortunately Cars can be quite dangerous... Is the free spread of information as dangerous or less?

p.s. I bike in the middle of the road.

[Fluribus]

Originally Posted by plib

The Grauniad thinks some others, including some very big companies, already are:

The online copyright war: the day the internet hit back at big media

The article says that few doubt that the movie industry will rally. It doesn't matter to me anymore. I've long since stopped watching movies. I don't buy (new or used) DVDs anymore. I don't rent anymore. (I rarely even watch the DVDs in my backlog.) I've never done any downloading of movies. I don't watch TV. They get $0.00 from me.

The major publishers are pushing me out of the book market. I haven't bought a new major release in quite a while. I pick up freebies. I buy some small press books. On the rare occasion that I can't pass up a major publisher's book, I buy it used. (That hasn't happened yet this year.)

My basic message to the entertainment industry is, "I can do without you!"

[danskmacabre]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

But that is just your opinion, our culture's ideas are an amalgamation of all opinions.

Of course it's my opinion, I even said that right at the start of my reply, just as your statements are your opinion.

How often do you reread books? Besides the few that you reread on a regular basis? I imagine the percentage of books that are reread is statistically insignificant when compared to the number of books that are read. So theoretically, it shouldn't matter whether or not you delete "your" copy of the ebook. Most ebooks will simply languish in the recesses of a hard drive after one read. Is this forced imprisonment of an idea ethical? Doubtful, but of course we must think of the creator.

I reread lots of books, Loads of Tolkien books, many other authors.
In addition to that I refer back to books checking facts etc as well, so I will always want to keep books I buy, ebooks or not.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by Format C:

If I download a bunch of ebooks from Megaupload, do not read them, do not share them and do not sell them, I'm not taking any advantage at all, but I'm a pirate, a criminal, a parasite and I deserve some jail time.

Maybe you can find among the billions on this planet someone who wants to jail Megaupload book downloaders, but I haven't found any around here. As for downloading many books, from a file hoster, that you will neither read, share nor sell, I would agree that this isn't piracy. It sounds more like what might happen in a denial of service attack.