DOJ suing Apple over ebooks.

[ScalyFreak]

Originally Posted by stonetools

I am willing to bet that you can't think of 10 quality nonfiction and biography titles that came out prior to the BPHs.

Wow. Rather than give you a list of every non-US classic ever written, I'll just repeat, wow.

Seriously. Wow.

Originally Posted by plib

Wasn't familiar with the Miyamoto but all the rest at least rang a bell.

Well worth reading, actually. Similar to The Art of War, but for one-on-one combat rather than strategy, and focusing on swordsmanship. It's a manual, no more, no less, but still worth reading if you enjoy diving into the mindset of the samurai and other warrior types.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Seriously???? Do you think that books started with the BPH's?

Thomas Paine --- Common Sense, Rights of Man, The Age of Reason (all well- written, short, very historically significant, The Age of Reason less so to its own time)

Frederick Douglass -- any of his autobiographies

Henry David Thoreau -- Walden (again, one of the all-time classics; once you finish reading it, read Herman Melville's short story "The Apple-Tree Table") -OR- A Week on the Concord and Merrimack Rivers (overlooked, but another classic)

Richard Henry Dana -- Two Years Before the Mast (good, but even better as preparation for reading Melville)

Margaret Fuller -- Woman in the Nineteenth Century (a feminist book by the foremost U.S. woman intellectual; she was also a Transcendentalist)

Sojourner Truth -- Narrative of Sojourner Truth (slave narrative)

Mark Twain -- Roughing It, The Innocents Abroad, Life on the Mississippi, A Tramp Abroad, Old Times on the Mississippi (Although some of these are longer than the others, they may be the most enjoyable for you.)

J. Hector St. John de Crevecoeur -- Letters from an American Farmer (unjustly overlooked)

Henry James -- Hawthorne (criticism/biography of Nathaniel Hawthorne)

Harriet Jacobs -- Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl (slave narrative)

Mary Rowlandson -- A Narrative of the Captivity and Restoration of Mrs. Mary Rowlandson (This is pretty short, but I guess it's about as short as some of Thomas Paine's stuff. This is interesting to read and very historically significant.)

Olaudah Equiano -- The Interesting Narrative of the Life of Olaudah Equiano (slave narrative)

Cotton Mather -- Wonders of the Invisible World (Mather argues that Satan walks among us as ghosts, witches, and demons, often in human garb; this work helped fuel the witch hunts)

Benjamin Franklin -- Autobiography (Even though it's all lies, it's very significant.) -OR- Poor Richard's Almanack

Oh... And most of them are available right here on MobileRead.

Okay - you got me on that . Don't post in the midst of tax time.

The point is not , can history and qualitynonfiction be published in the absence off the BPHs- the question is , how likely is it that quality nonfiction and biography will be published in the absence of, oR the crippling of the BPHS. Inote that you didnt respond to my second query.
The fact is that good history and biogrphy are rather thin on the ground at Smashwords.
Sure you can make an impressive list of quality nonfiction and history writing over the course of centuries. But these days it's coming from the BPHS . It ain't coming Fromm the self publishers.

[ProfCrash]

As the market shifts, there is going to be a change in the way books are written. I don't think the quality is going to drop but the quantity might. Sooner or later, probably sooner, the Publishers, whoever they may be, will figure out how to make it worthwhile to scholars to produce those same books.

Authors are going to have to adjust to not having advances and to save more of their royalties. Publishers are already keeping and eye on the Independent authors who are doing well and offering them contracts. Those authors are probably not getting the same type of advances that a newer author would have gotten 10 years ago. As they develop their fan base and grow, they probably will not get the higher advances that are common now. They will probably press for more royalties.

The shift is not going to be easy for everyone, we all know that. There is no way to put the genie back in the bottle. E-books are growing, paper books are shrinking. Publishers and authors need to adapt to the new reality. The existing Publisher and Authors are scared. They know how the system works today and do not know how they are going to survive in a more e-book based world.

Burying their heads in the sand and defending the system that they know, while understandable, is not helping them. Hardback books are not going to bring in the volume they used to. That money is gone. Trying to jack up e-book prices, legally or illegally, to protect the hardback and trade paperback is not going to work. If they keep that up, piracy will thrive and people who would be happy to be a reasonably priced e-book on launch day are going to justify pirating the book instead.

[crossi]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

Burying their heads in the sand and defending the system that they know, while understandable, is not helping them. Hardback books are not going to bring in the volume they used to. That money is gone. Trying to jack up e-book prices, legally or illegally, to protect the hardback and trade paperback is not going to work. If they keep that up, piracy will thrive and people who would be happy to be a reasonably priced e-book on launch day are going to justify pirating the book instead.

You are probably right. There will be the inevitable comments that piracy is wrong which is beside the point. Wether it is immoral or not it will happen and the best way to combat it is to offer books at reasonable prices and more conveniently and safely than pirate sites can offer.

[sabredog]

The problem is the the BPH's won't consider another model similar to Baen or Amazon, but would rather sink millions in pursuing copyright infringement or ripping off customers in their attempts to destroy Amazon and to preserve their 20th century era businesses.

You would think that the bumblings of the MPAA and RIAA were lesson enough, but they are so bloody set in stone and short sighted they will not even consider change as the way forward.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by sabredog

The problem is the the BPH's won't consider another model similar to Baen or Amazon

So exactly what is Amazon's model?

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

The Publishers are going to have to adjust to the idea that as computers and tablets grow in usage and popularity, fewer people are going to want paper books....

They already have started to adjust. That's why they pushed for agency pricing.

The wholesale model treats ebooks like they are paper books, a concept that doesn't make sense. The self-publishing outlets all use an agency model -- author/self-publisher sets the retail price and the retailer gets a percentage.

By the publisher setting the price, they can also reflect the normal course of economic affairs with demand-based pricing. The more demand for a book (e.g. when it first comes out), the higher the price. As demand falls, you lower the price. Normally this is done with the hardcover/paperback release schedule (hint: hardcovers don't cost an extra $5-10 to make per copy).

In addition, they are dealing with the legal issues of backlist titles; they stopped windowing titles; they're cutting loose underperforming midlist authors; they're not wasting time with the hordes of unsolicited manuscripts; they're offering deals to self-published authors who make good.

The desire to counter Amazon doesn't come from a decision to "hold onto old business models." It clearly comes from an interest in preventing Amazon from establishing a monopoly in ebooks, which is undoubtedly where things were headed before the iPad -- and where they are now headed again. Nor was there any indication whatsoever that in the publishers' private discussions of "we need to nip this ebook thing in the bud" or "to heck with digital, we are sticking with paper."

I mean, really, what year do you think it is? 2009?

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

Trying to jack up e-book prices, legally or illegally, to protect the hardback and trade paperback is not going to work. If they keep that up, piracy will thrive...

They aren't protecting hardcover prices, they're protecting the value of the product they sell, and adjusting prices in accordance with demand.

And somehow, despite higher prices, ebook sales have gone through the roof over the last 2 years, and piracy doesn't seem to be slowing those sales. hmmmm

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

And I am sorry, but Amazon would have lost position with or without the Agency model. The Nook, Kobo and other new devices were on their way in.

Those devices already existed. The only new entrant was the iPad, and since that was introduced the Sony devices have gotten sidelined.

It's also pretty clear that Apple would not have taken as much market share as they have if they didn't match Amazon on price, since it's almost as easy to use the Kindle app as to use the iBooks app.

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

Publishers have to change how they handle their business. Cut back on the advances, increase the royalties to make up for the loss of advances, and start prepping for the new format.

Authors don't usually recover their advances. E.g. an author gets a $50k advance, the book sells enough for the author to get $25k in royalties. Cutting advances and increasing royalties means a smaller payment for the authors.

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

Publishers are already keeping and eye on the Independent authors who are doing well and offering them contracts. Those authors are probably not getting the same type of advances that a newer author would have gotten 10 years ago.

Yup. Those advances are significantly larger than 10 years ago.

Hocking got a $2 million advance. How big of an advance would she have gotten if she sent unsolicited manuscripts to a publisher?

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

DRM is never an advantage except for at the library.

Without DRM you don't get legal ebook libraries.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by tompe

So exactly what is Amazon's model?

Amazon's Kindle store encourages the following ebook practices:

High author royalties (50-70%)
No geo-restrictions.
Price optimized for volume sales; $2.99-6.99 or so.
Lending and TTS enabled.
ebook-first publishing.
DRM-optional, at author discretion.

It's not as if Amazon invented those things, but they do keep track of what works for both consumers and authors and adopt them when it helps them make money. They also experiment with promotional tricks such as the Prime Library and the new Audible bonus to authors who participate in social media to promote their audiobooks.
(https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=175460)

Most of those practices are followed by many of the New Publishing Houses as well as the smaller, more agile traditional publishers. Many of them also sell direct to consumers from their own web site.

In general, publishers that follow these practices have little to fear from Amazon.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Amazon's Kindle store encourages the following ebook practices:

High author royalties (50-70%)
No geo-restrictions.
Price optimized for volume sales; $2.99-6.99 or so.
Lending and TTS enabled.
ebook-first publishing.
DRM-optional, at author discretion.

It's not as if Amazon invented those things, but they do keep track of what works for both consumers and authors and adopt them when it helps them make money. They also experiment with promotional tricks such as the Prime Library and the new Audible bonus to authors who participate in social media to promote their audiobooks.
(https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=175460)

Most of those practices are followed by many of the New Publishing Houses as well as the smaller, more agile traditional publishers. Many of them also sell direct to consumers from their own web site.

In general, publishers that follow these practices have little to fear from Amazon.

I assume you know that most books do not sell in great volumes. And that books are not fungibles. So what that model seem to do is move all the risk to the writer and do not help by taking the risk together with the writer. It also seems to be a system that will not take chances and help to develop new authors skills.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

And somehow, despite higher prices, ebook sales have gone through the roof over the last 2 years, and piracy doesn't seem to be slowing those sales. hmmmm

Of the current top 10 selling eBooks on Amazon, 9 are less than $10, and the other one is a trilogy compilation, priced at less than $10 per book.

8 of the top 10 selling SF&F are below $10, and one of the others is a 4 book collection at less than $10 per book.

All of the top 10 selling Romance books are below $10.

6 of the top 10 selling Literary Fiction books are below $10.

5 of the top 10 selling Mystery and Thriller books are below $10.

It seems to me that lower priced books sell better than higher priced ones, which shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. Have eBooks sales gone through the roof for agency-priced books at $13-$15?

[tompe]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

Of the current top 10 selling eBooks on Amazon, 9 are less than $10, and the other one is a trilogy compilation, priced at less than $10 per book.

But less than $10 mean there is a paperback version and in volume paperback nearly always sell more than hardcover. The interesting thing is the sale of "hardcover" ebooks and the total income over time.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Without DRM you don't get legal ebook libraries.

Do you honestly think without DRM, we won't be buying eBooks?

[jgaiser]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Sure you can make an impressive list of quality nonfiction and history writing over the course of centuries. But these days it's coming from the BPHS . It ain't coming Fromm the self publishers.

Translation: I don't see any quality self-published nonfiction and history writing right now, so it's never going to happen. Today's writers are too lazy and/or too greedy to do it without the amazing support of the big publishers.

[ProfCrash]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

They already have started to adjust. That's why they pushed for agency pricing.

The wholesale model treats ebooks like they are paper books, a concept that doesn't make sense. The self-publishing outlets all use an agency model -- author/self-publisher sets the retail price and the retailer gets a percentage.

By the publisher setting the price, they can also reflect the normal course of economic affairs with demand-based pricing. The more demand for a book (e.g. when it first comes out), the higher the price. As demand falls, you lower the price. Normally this is done with the hardcover/paperback release schedule (hint: hardcovers don't cost an extra $5-10 to make per copy).

In addition, they are dealing with the legal issues of backlist titles; they stopped windowing titles; they're cutting loose underperforming midlist authors; they're not wasting time with the hordes of unsolicited manuscripts; they're offering deals to self-published authors who make good.

The desire to counter Amazon doesn't come from a decision to "hold onto old business models." It clearly comes from an interest in preventing Amazon from establishing a monopoly in ebooks, which is undoubtedly where things were headed before the iPad -- and where they are now headed again. Nor was there any indication whatsoever that in the publishers' private discussions of "we need to nip this ebook thing in the bud" or "to heck with digital, we are sticking with paper."

I mean, really, what year do you think it is? 2009?



They aren't protecting hardcover prices, they're protecting the value of the product they sell, and adjusting prices in accordance with demand.

And somehow, despite higher prices, ebook sales have gone through the roof over the last 2 years, and piracy doesn't seem to be slowing those sales. hmmmm



Those devices already existed. The only new entrant was the iPad, and since that was introduced the Sony devices have gotten sidelined.

It's also pretty clear that Apple would not have taken as much market share as they have if they didn't match Amazon on price, since it's almost as easy to use the Kindle app as to use the iBooks app.



Authors don't usually recover their advances. E.g. an author gets a $50k advance, the book sells enough for the author to get $25k in royalties. Cutting advances and increasing royalties means a smaller payment for the authors.



Yup. Those advances are significantly larger than 10 years ago.

Hocking got a $2 million advance. How big of an advance would she have gotten if she sent unsolicited manuscripts to a publisher?

The emails and conversations included in the inditment (sp) make it clear that they wanted higher e-book prices so that people would not think that hardback books are over priced. The Agency Model was an attempt to drive up e-book prices, which they were making more money on under the wholesale market, so that the paper books were protected. They were protecting a format that is being pushed to the side because people do not value it as much. That is not adjusting to the new market, that is protecting the old market. It is an attempt to put their heads in the sand and pretend that the changes that are happening are not happening.

Yes, people have paid more for ebooks but there are complaints. It could also be that the increase in e-book reader users. Perhaps that number would be higher if prices had been lower. The introduction of the Nook Touch and Kindle Touch led to millions of new users.

The product that they sell will make them money in a different way. They have to adjust their thinking and their business model. The current business model does not work for e-books.