Should writers give up on getting paid for their writing?

[Justin Nemo]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

Did he say that in "Shaft"?

Yes I think he did, just before he said "Kill that Mother&%%^$ %£$%^&* "$%$£$%£$%£"

[crich70]

Originally Posted by Penforhire

Hasn't it always been difficult to make a living writing fiction? Many of my favorite authors talk about having to write non-fiction or other jobs to get by. Anyone got a link to how the total number of full-time fiction authors changed over time?

I agree. All the books I've read about writing seem to make the point that few writers ever make a living just on their writing alone. It's always been that way I think. And for every Twain or Dickens that comes along there are 99 or more writers who may write well but don't get the recognition of being the next great writer. Plus people often stick to a genre they know so if they don't read horror for example they might not know of a Scott Nicholson just as an example.

[crich70]

Originally Posted by GlenBarrington

New tech always encourages new players. In time, people will leave the market once they realize that there will never be enough paying readers to make the investment in time, effort and emotion pay off.

Then, people will make money again!

I agree that changes in technology cause upsets in the status quo it's always been that way. Movie studios went to court when VCR's came out for the home in an attempt to keep people from being able to record movies off of TV for example. In time they adapted. I think the same will happen with books. It isn't a matter so much of less people making $ writing I don't think as it is a greater consciousness of that problem. At one time if a young ummarried woman found herself pregnant her family kept it quiet, now it's not so hidden and people wonder how it came to be so commonplace. The real fact is that it was probably always commonplace to a degree and people just weren't aware of it as much because families did keep it to themselves if possible. I think a similar thing is happening with books. In the past the author had to wait months for a statement of how well their book was selling and that was after waiting for weeks or months to see if a publisher would publish their book. Now everything is there with a push of a button. An author in LA can send their book to NYC in mere seconds rather than by conventional mail and know in short order if the publisher is interested. Likewise they can sell it at sites like Smashwords and get quick updates on their sales. The sales process probably isn't much different in that you still have to market the book to a reader, but you can see in an instant how well it is doing. So a book might be doing the same as a similar book might have done 20-30 yrs ago but you don't have to wait for months to see how it's doing and might therefore get an incomplete picture of how well or poorly it is selling.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

The old publishing and payment system had to be different, because of the time-delay involved with producing a book as an individual entity, printing and distributing it, and waiting for the payments to come in... the process could take years. The heightened immediacy of the digital media model should force changes to that system, impacting author (and book) speculation, advances and royalties, commissions and percentages.

Short-term promotional advertisement should become more prevalent in ebook financial structures, as it is in TV and radio, which are designed around an "immediate release" system, example: "Brought to you by Toyota; go see the new 2012 Prius C today!"

[kennyc]

Hey! Don't be priusing on my book!

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Hey! Don't be priusing on my book!

What? You'd rather promote an F-150?

[kennyc]

Tesla! Zoom-Zoom.

[QuantumIguana]

Originally Posted by carld

I think his opinion is completely reasonable in this century or any other.

What is reasonable about his opinion that people who give their work away for free are "as*holes"? What's the alternative, forcing people to charge for their work? If someone wants to give something away, shouldn't they be able to? He rails against amateurs, but the amateurs have every bit as much right to write and to distribute their work on their terms as he does.

[carld]

Originally Posted by QuantumIguana

What is reasonable about his opinion that people who give their work away for free are "as*holes"? What's the alternative, forcing people to charge for their work? If someone wants to give something away, shouldn't they be able to? He rails against amateurs, but the amateurs have every bit as much right to write and to distribute their work on their terms as he does.

Well first he wasn't talking, in that instance, about amateurs. He was talking about professional writers. If every other person involved in the project he's talking about, from the truck drivers, to the office workers, on up through the head of the studio profits from it, why should the writer be expected to do it for free?

As*hole might not be the best choice of words, but I agree with his sentiment completely.

Also, he isn't railing against amateurs as such. He's ranting about people who are eager to give their work away for nothing other than a spec of attention. Again, I agree with that. And, of course people have every right to give their work away (Ellison isn't saying they don't). That doesn't automatically make it the smartest choice.

[QuantumIguana]

He's well within his rights to decline to allow his work to be used if he's not getting paid. But other people are free to do as they want with their own work, and if he doesn't like it, too bad.

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by carld

Well first he wasn't talking, in that instance, about amateurs. He was talking about professional writers. If every other person involved in the project he's talking about, from the truck drivers, to the office workers, on up through the head of the studio profits from it, why should the writer be expected to do it for free?

As*hole might not be the best choice of words, but I agree with his sentiment completely.

Also, he isn't railing against amateurs as such. He's ranting about people who are eager to give their work away for nothing other than a spec of attention. Again, I agree with that. And, of course people have every right to give their work away (Ellison isn't saying they don't). That doesn't automatically make it the smartest choice.

Neither the volcanic regurgitation spewing old fart in question nor yourself gets to detirmine who is a "professional writer" and thus worthy to present their works to the public.

I here by declare myself arbiter of valid opinions (a lofty claim I have the exact same right to as yourself and Ellison have to the one you agree upon I.E. none). Henceforth you may no longer pontificate on authorship and capitalism there unto pertaining.

I win! (wait, wrong thread.)

[carld]

Originally Posted by Phogg

Neither the volcanic regurgitation spewing old fart in question nor yourself gets to detirmine who is a "professional writer" and thus worthy to present their works to the public.

I here by declare myself arbiter of valid opinions (a lofty claim I have the exact same right to as yourself and Ellison have to the one you agree upon I.E. none). Henceforth you may no longer pontificate on authorship and capitalism there unto pertaining.

I win! (wait, wrong thread.)

First, neither he, nor I, said anything like that. He was referring to the professional writers (you know, people who got paid to do the writing on B5), who were giving free interviews for the DVD set.

It has absolutely NOTHING to do with who is worthy to present their writing to the public. Your assertion is completely off base.

[carld]

Originally Posted by QuantumIguana

He's well within his rights to decline to allow his work to be used if he's not getting paid. But other people are free to do as they want with their own work, and if he doesn't like it, too bad.

He is also well within his rights to say that writers shouldn't be so eager to give their work away for nothing. And he's allowed to say so with as much vigor and vitriol as he cares to produce, and if people don't like it, that's also too bad.

[QuantumIguana]

Originally Posted by carld

He is also well within his rights to say that writers shouldn't be so eager to give their work away for nothing. And he's allowed to say so with as much vigor and vitriol as he cares to produce, and if people don't like it, that's also too bad.

Certainly, he's free to rant until he's red in the face. He can scream all he wants. No one said that he didn't. It doesn't mean his position is reasonable. He's outraged that someone could call him and ask him to allow his interview to be used for free. Fine, it's work, he can do with it as he pleases. But when he rages about people who give away their work without payment, he's not doing anything different from those who call him and ask him to give away his work for free.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by carld

Also, he isn't railing against amateurs as such. He's ranting about people who are eager to give their work away for nothing other than a spec of attention. Again, I agree with that. And, of course people have every right to give their work away (Ellison isn't saying they don't). That doesn't automatically make it the smartest choice.

Giving work away for free, in return for some notoriety and an expectation of paid work in the future, is one of the oldest methods known of beginning and growing a business. Nothing wrong with it at all. Naturally, established businesses hate to see new businesses do it, because it shifts the commercial balance and undercuts the established business.

Ellison thinks of himself, and all GOOD writers, as "Arr-teests," to be lauded by the unwashed masses and showered with gold for their efforts. The rest (like me, who don't have his extensive credentials) are considered by him to be hacks, who should be ridden out of town on a rail for performing on the street (and taking income that should have gone to him).

I'd remind him that he's written for television. Here's a ladder... climb down.