Amazon offers indie authors reward for going exclusive - Page 28

Fbone · 04-06-2012, 04:49 AM

Amazon has a better "Customers Who Bought This ..." set-up than B&N. Faster with more choices. So Jan's customers probably searched for other titles and Amazon linked his book with their purchase.

Comparing the 2 sites. On Amazon Jan has more reviews and most positive with 20 other recommendations. B&N has only 7 anonymous reviews with no text just a rating and only 1 other recommendation. He's rating is slightly lower on B&N.

rhadin · 04-06-2012, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScalyFreak

Yikes. Either B&N are shafting indie authors, or Amazon are DaVinci-level geniuses at marketing indie books.

That's just depressing.

Or perhaps the readers at B&N are different than the readers at Amazon and thus look for different types of books.

The one question that is always avoided in these discussions, probably because it is speculative and because indie authors mostly want to believe it will not matter, is this: What will Amazon do once it has a monopoly of the ebook market?

It seems to me that the recent dispute between Amazon and IPG gives a clue as to what can be expected: Amazon will want a larger share of the pie and will be able to get it because there will be no competing outlets.

Even though Amazon sales of Strnad's books swamp the sales at B&N, should Amazon decide to muscle indie authors for a larger share of the pie, there is an alternative place to go. Should B&N fold like Borders, Amazon will have no credible competition in the United States and indie authors will be at Amazon's mercy.

I understand why an author would think about giving Amazon exclusivity, especially if sales of the author's abooks at B&N are 1% of sales at Amazon. Yet I have not seen an analysis of why that is. What is it that Amazon is doing to promote the specific books that B&N isn't? How much of the author's own promotional efforts are aimed at directing prospective readers to Amazon rather than B&N?

Considering that Amazon has about 65% of the ebook market and B&N about 28%, I would have expected B&N sales of a title to be about one-third that of Amazon's, by Strnad reports differently for his/her books. I think trying to discover why would be very important to an author.

rhadin · 04-06-2012, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fbone

Amazon has a better "Customers Who Bought This ..." set-up than B&N. Faster with more choices. So Jan's customers probably searched for other titles and Amazon linked his book with their purchase.

Comparing the 2 sites. On Amazon Jan has more reviews and most positive with 20 other recommendations. B&N has only 7 anonymous reviews with no text just a rating and only 1 other recommendation. He's rating is slightly lower on B&N.

I'm probably one of the few readers who really hate the "Customers Who Bought This. . ." or "Recommended for You . . ." setups. I never look at them and if I could turn them off, I would. Largely because the few times in the past when I have looked, they weren't even close to anything that would interest me (that's on both Amazon and B&N). I may have bought a book but neither Amazon nor B&N has any idea whether I liked it. If I hated it or was neutral about it, I certainly wouldn't want books like it. Plus, because the account is in my name, I buy books for my wife. Do I want to be inundated with books based on what I bought for her?

As regards reviews, this is a serious problem at B&N and I wonder if many book buyers are like me -- they simply do not write reviews. B&N is constantly asking me to review books that I have purchased; I just ignore the requests. And I do so for several reasons. First, I have 500+ books in my TBR pile, so it is likely that the book I bought 2 weeks (or even 2 months) ago has yet to be read.

Second, writing a review takes valuable time and effort. Consequently, a book has to be really outstanding -- outstandingly good or bad -- before I will be motivated to write a review. For the average 3 or 4 star book, I see no point in writing a review. i didn't like it that much nor did I dislike it that much.

Third, it is quite likely that the book is one of those that I started, discovered was poorly written or simply uninteresting, and then deleted unfinished. Yet it was not so bad as to be a shining excample of what should not be published.

So the lack of reviews at B&N are partly my fault (I don't buy at Amazon so I wouldn't review books there) -- I just do not write reviews. Yet with all the reviews at Amazon, I wonder if it isn't a cottage industry there.

MrsJoseph · 04-06-2012, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhadin

Or perhaps the readers at B&N are different than the readers at Amazon and thus look for different types of books.

The one question that is always avoided in these discussions, probably because it is speculative and because indie authors mostly want to believe it will not matter, is this: What will Amazon do once it has a monopoly of the ebook market?

It seems to me that the recent dispute between Amazon and IPG gives a clue as to what can be expected: Amazon will want a larger share of the pie and will be able to get it because there will be no competing outlets.

Even though Amazon sales of Strnad's books swamp the sales at B&N, should Amazon decide to muscle indie authors for a larger share of the pie, there is an alternative place to go. Should B&N fold like Borders, Amazon will have no credible competition in the United States and indie authors will be at Amazon's mercy.

I understand why an author would think about giving Amazon exclusivity, especially if sales of the author's abooks at B&N are 1% of sales at Amazon. Yet I have not seen an analysis of why that is. What is it that Amazon is doing to promote the specific books that B&N isn't? How much of the author's own promotional efforts are aimed at directing prospective readers to Amazon rather than B&N?

Considering that Amazon has about 65% of the ebook market and B&N about 28%, I would have expected B&N sales of a title to be about one-third that of Amazon's, by Strnad reports differently for his/her books. I think trying to discover why would be very important to an author.

You know, this is a question I ask often. What is going to happen once Amazon has less/no competition? I'm really concerned.

I don't own a kindle and I don't buy ebooks from Amazon...but sometimes I wonder what the point is of not owning a kindle. A lot of authors are going exclusive; Amazon has a lot of other exclusive materials; they have a lending library... The list goes on and on. I want competition in publishing - it makes my life better - but sometimes I just want to give in and allow myself to be assimilated.

ProfCrash · 04-06-2012, 09:55 AM

Someone will figure out how to build a decent e-book bookstore to compete with Amazon. There is money to be made in this industry and a smart person or group of people will figure out how to make a more main stream website that sells books in Mobi and E-Pub at competitive prices.

I am more then a bit surprised that BN and Kobo do not stock every book that Amazon does that they can. Obviously there is nothing that they can do about the exclusives but there are e-books available, that are not exclusives, that cannot be found at their stores. I am thinking of people posting about niche areas like technology, programming texts, and the like. How much does it cost to store the e-book on your server and make it available to the people looking for those books? How hard is it to have a staff of 10 whose main job is to search for titles that Amazon has that you do not and contact authors and Publishers and ask them to sell that book at BN or Kobo? It might mean an initial investment but if it helps you challenge Amazon in the long run, it is money well spent.

Why don't BN and Kobo sell Mobi books? The Publishers are not happy with Amazon. Why not suggest that Mobi books without DRM can be sold at BN and Kobo so that Kindle users can shop at those stores. It might increase the number of people who shop at your store because people not interested in DRM might chose to buy from you and not Amazon.

E-books are growing in popularity. Everyone knows that. Someone is going to figure out a way to challenge Amazon. They might not match Amazon but they can do better then BN, Sony, Kobo, and Apple are.

Assimilation is not painful. We provide tea and cookies to members or the collective on a daily basis. But the truth is you know how to buy books from Amazon in the rare event that it is there and not at another store and make it work on your E-Pub. You enjoy your Kobo and Sony. There is no reason to buy a Kindle. I can see moving because Amazon puts out a new device that is totally different and awesome, I can't see moving because the E-Pub companies are idiots.

I do think it might be better for the E-Pub market to lose some of the players, Sony with its awful bookstore maybe, so that there is less infighting among the EPub players which might allow them to focus more on Amazon. The reality is Amazon does not have to worry about competition within its format so it can focus on other things. BN has to be worried about Kobo and Sony. Kobo might be the best positioned for long term success. The device is good (I don't get why it does not have the bells and whistles that the Nook and Sony have), the book store is good, the coupons are suppose to be nice, and it is established internationally. Sony is international but has a sucky bookstore, I don't think it cares about developing a better bookstore, and it is still more expensive then other devices outside the US. BN has a good bookstore, a good device, but has not figured out the international market.

stonetools · 04-06-2012, 09:58 AM

Quote:

The one question that is always avoided in these discussions, probably because it is speculative and because indie authors mostly want to believe it will not matter, is this: What will Amazon do once it has a monopoly of the ebook market?

It seems to me that the recent dispute between Amazon and IPG gives a clue as to what can be expected: Amazon will want a larger share of the pie and will be able to get it because there will be no competing outlets.

Hey, this would require long term thinking and in the long run wer are all dead, dontcha' know?
Prior to Apple's entry into the market, the author/royalty split was some where near 25 percent.
After Apple announced its 70/30 split as part of its deal with publishers, Amazon was suddenly " excited" to announce its own 70/30 split

LINK

J. Strnad · 04-06-2012, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhadin

Or perhaps the readers at B&N are different than the readers at Amazon and thus look for different types of books.

The one question that is always avoided in these discussions, probably because it is speculative and because indie authors mostly want to believe it will not matter, is this: What will Amazon do once it has a monopoly of the ebook market?

It seems to me that the recent dispute between Amazon and IPG gives a clue as to what can be expected: Amazon will want a larger share of the pie and will be able to get it because there will be no competing outlets.

Even though Amazon sales of Strnad's books swamp the sales at B&N, should Amazon decide to muscle indie authors for a larger share of the pie, there is an alternative place to go. Should B&N fold like Borders, Amazon will have no credible competition in the United States and indie authors will be at Amazon's mercy.

I understand why an author would think about giving Amazon exclusivity, especially if sales of the author's abooks at B&N are 1% of sales at Amazon. Yet I have not seen an analysis of why that is. What is it that Amazon is doing to promote the specific books that B&N isn't? How much of the author's own promotional efforts are aimed at directing prospective readers to Amazon rather than B&N?

Considering that Amazon has about 65% of the ebook market and B&N about 28%, I would have expected B&N sales of a title to be about one-third that of Amazon's, by Strnad reports differently for his/her books. I think trying to discover why would be very important to an author.

These are exactly the questions that haunt me. (Except for the implied question about my gender. I know I'm a guy, despite the androgynous first name. I'm named after Jan Murray, the comedian.)

Anyway...

I do not like monopolies or exclusives, and that's why I"m back trying to sell at B&N. I worry about Amazon gaining too much power but wonder if it hasn't already passed the tipping point. I wonder if B&N (Nook) doesn't have a fundamentally different clientele. I am baffled by the sales difference.

It all seems to be about Amazon's algorithms for promoting books, algorithms that are tied up in mystery ribbon. When the algorithms change, so do my sales, sometimes up, sometimes down. Everything I do to promote seems to have as much effect as waving a live chicken over my computer monitor.

I actually think Amazon is more powerful than we realize, using some new kind of mojo to make or break books. Meanwhile, B&N sticks with "Pay us promotional money and we'll feature your book prominently." It's kind of like Wizards vs. Trolls. Amazon's using magic and B&N is banging out swords.

rhadin · 04-06-2012, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

I don't own a kindle and I don't buy ebooks from Amazon...but sometimes I wonder what the point is of not owning a kindle. A lot of authors are going exclusive; Amazon has a lot of other exclusive materials; they have a lending library... The list goes on and on. I want competition in publishing - it makes my life better - but sometimes I just want to give in and allow myself to be assimilated.

This makes 2 of us. Occasionally I, too, get the urge to say the heck with it and give in, but I suspect I will be one of the last to do so because I do worry about competition.

I come from this from a different perspective. When I first began my editing career, most of the larger publishers were family owned or small corporations. There was pride in the product and rigorous editing standards were maintained.

Over the years, these publishers were bought by mega corporations and it wasn't long before what mattered was the quarterly return, not the quality of the work, and editing was the first to suffer because it is essentially invisible. You can see the ink and paper use, the cover design, and the like, but editing is invisible. So the bean counters cut editing budgets and continue to do so. They could do so because competition was decreased. We went from 100 significant publishing houses to 6.

Fbone · 04-06-2012, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Strnad

I do not like monopolies or exclusives, and that's why I"m back trying to sell at B&N. I worry about Amazon gaining too much power but wonder if it hasn't already passed the tipping point. I wonder if B&N (Nook) doesn't have a fundamentally different clientele. I am baffled by the sales difference.

It is strange the difference in sales. The only other thing I've noticed from reading author's blogs is that some genres sell better at one retailer than others. For example, several romance writers say there sales at B&N outsell those at Amazon. A couple of non-fiction authors report similar findings.

HarryT · 04-06-2012, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fbone

It is strange the difference in sales. The only other thing I've noticed from reading author's blogs is that some genres sell better at one retailer than others. For example, several romance writers say there sales at B&N outsell those at Amazon. A couple of non-fiction authors report similar findings.

One reason one would expect sales to be better at Amazon is that they sell world-wide; B&N are US-only. Shutting out 95% of your potential customers is not a very sound business strategy, it seems to me.

Fbone · 04-06-2012, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

One reason one would expect sales to be better at Amazon is that they sell world-wide; B&N are US-only. Shutting out 95% of your potential customers is not a very sound business strategy, it seems to me.

It's sound strategy if it's not expected to be profitable. Amazon has a huge VAT advantage. Every device, app and ebook B&N sells in Europe would cost more than at Amazon. Some as high as 17% more.

ProfCrash · 04-06-2012, 02:44 PM

BN does not sell books in Europe. They only sell in the US. I am sure that BN could set up their base of operations in Luxemburg (sp) ,just like Amazon, if they wanted to and avoid the VAT.

ScotiaBurrell · 04-06-2012, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

a smart person or group of people will figure out how to make a more main stream website that sells books in Mobi and E-Pub at competitive prices.
.

Amazon has head start and momentem. Unless publishers help which is probably illegal, amazon will be ruthless with them.

also most consumer dont care about formats they just want to read the book.

ProfCrash · 04-06-2012, 03:05 PM

I would happily move from Amazon to another website if prices were competitive and there was no DRM. It would save me a step and make my life easier. I would recommend said site to friends and family.

I got my entire family into e-readers. If I point out a website to my family where they can buy books that they can read across platforms, I know of a bunch of folks in my family who would be all over that. Everyone at work knows that I am a Kindle lover and I get asked for advice on e-readers and e-bookstores on a regular basis.

I am guessing that most folks on this board can say something similar.

Amazon has a head start, but so did other business that over took the market leader. Xerox, IBM, Sony, Kodak and others have been over taken by new companies that figured out how to offer the same product but in a way that consumers provided.

I am sure that there are ways that Publishers can help. They can sell books using the same mechanisms to the different distributors but trumpet how much they like working with this particular business. Authors can be encouraged to send people to specific websites. Agressive facebook, twitter, and other social media campaigns.

It can be done, someone just has to do it.

BN should be finding a way to compete with Amazon but is failing miserably. Kobo, with its coupons, should be able to compete with Amazon but for some reason has not figured out that selling Mobi books would help them. Part of it could be that they cannot use Amazon's DRM and Publishers are refusing to allow books to be sold without DRM. In that case, the Publishers are being stupid because they are hurting Kobo and BN.

Then again, Publishers could think that removing DRM might mean that Amazon starts selling EPUBs and things get even uglier for other stores since people with EPUB readers might buy from Amazon.

anamardoll · 04-06-2012, 03:36 PM

In my opinion, the only way to prevent Amazon exclusivity (if you're a reader) is to start buying indie novels from B&N or other places.

I'm worried about Amazon exclusivity myself. But as long as the worried people just stay worried and don't start proactively buying from other places (i.e., buying on a protracted, regular basis), indie authors are going to continue posting low sales from B&N et. al. and other indies will sign up for Amazon exclusivity thinking "What's the downside?"

I've been trying to buy an indie novel a day from B&N, just to sort of vote with my wallet. I'm probably getting a lot of duds, but for ~$1-3 a day, to me, it's worth it. But I'm just one person and I only like certain genres.

If you don't want Amazon to become a monopoly: Buy things elsewhere!

I hope that doesn't sound harsh, but for me that's just the way of things.

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04-06-2012, 04:49 AM	#406
Fbone Is that a sandwich? Posts: 8,296 Karma: 101697116 Join Date: Jun 2010 Device: Nook Glowlight Plus	Amazon has a better "Customers Who Bought This ..." set-up than B&N. Faster with more choices. So Jan's customers probably searched for other titles and Amazon linked his book with their purchase. Comparing the 2 sites. On Amazon Jan has more reviews and most positive with 20 other recommendations. B&N has only 7 anonymous reviews with no text just a rating and only 1 other recommendation. He's rating is slightly lower on B&N.

04-06-2012, 09:55 AM	#410
ProfCrash Tea Enthusiast Posts: 8,554 Karma: 75384937 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Somewhere in the USA Device: Kindle1, Kindle DX Graphite, K3 3G, IPad 3, PW2	Someone will figure out how to build a decent e-book bookstore to compete with Amazon. There is money to be made in this industry and a smart person or group of people will figure out how to make a more main stream website that sells books in Mobi and E-Pub at competitive prices. I am more then a bit surprised that BN and Kobo do not stock every book that Amazon does that they can. Obviously there is nothing that they can do about the exclusives but there are e-books available, that are not exclusives, that cannot be found at their stores. I am thinking of people posting about niche areas like technology, programming texts, and the like. How much does it cost to store the e-book on your server and make it available to the people looking for those books? How hard is it to have a staff of 10 whose main job is to search for titles that Amazon has that you do not and contact authors and Publishers and ask them to sell that book at BN or Kobo? It might mean an initial investment but if it helps you challenge Amazon in the long run, it is money well spent. Why don't BN and Kobo sell Mobi books? The Publishers are not happy with Amazon. Why not suggest that Mobi books without DRM can be sold at BN and Kobo so that Kindle users can shop at those stores. It might increase the number of people who shop at your store because people not interested in DRM might chose to buy from you and not Amazon. E-books are growing in popularity. Everyone knows that. Someone is going to figure out a way to challenge Amazon. They might not match Amazon but they can do better then BN, Sony, Kobo, and Apple are. Assimilation is not painful. We provide tea and cookies to members or the collective on a daily basis. But the truth is you know how to buy books from Amazon in the rare event that it is there and not at another store and make it work on your E-Pub. You enjoy your Kobo and Sony. There is no reason to buy a Kindle. I can see moving because Amazon puts out a new device that is totally different and awesome, I can't see moving because the E-Pub companies are idiots. I do think it might be better for the E-Pub market to lose some of the players, Sony with its awful bookstore maybe, so that there is less infighting among the EPub players which might allow them to focus more on Amazon. The reality is Amazon does not have to worry about competition within its format so it can focus on other things. BN has to be worried about Kobo and Sony. Kobo might be the best positioned for long term success. The device is good (I don't get why it does not have the bells and whistles that the Nook and Sony have), the book store is good, the coupons are suppose to be nice, and it is established internationally. Sony is international but has a sucky bookstore, I don't think it cares about developing a better bookstore, and it is still more expensive then other devices outside the US. BN has a good bookstore, a good device, but has not figured out the international market.

04-06-2012, 02:44 PM	#417
ProfCrash Tea Enthusiast Posts: 8,554 Karma: 75384937 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Somewhere in the USA Device: Kindle1, Kindle DX Graphite, K3 3G, IPad 3, PW2	BN does not sell books in Europe. They only sell in the US. I am sure that BN could set up their base of operations in Luxemburg (sp) ,just like Amazon, if they wanted to and avoid the VAT.

04-06-2012, 03:05 PM	#419
ProfCrash Tea Enthusiast Posts: 8,554 Karma: 75384937 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Somewhere in the USA Device: Kindle1, Kindle DX Graphite, K3 3G, IPad 3, PW2	I would happily move from Amazon to another website if prices were competitive and there was no DRM. It would save me a step and make my life easier. I would recommend said site to friends and family. I got my entire family into e-readers. If I point out a website to my family where they can buy books that they can read across platforms, I know of a bunch of folks in my family who would be all over that. Everyone at work knows that I am a Kindle lover and I get asked for advice on e-readers and e-bookstores on a regular basis. I am guessing that most folks on this board can say something similar. Amazon has a head start, but so did other business that over took the market leader. Xerox, IBM, Sony, Kodak and others have been over taken by new companies that figured out how to offer the same product but in a way that consumers provided. I am sure that there are ways that Publishers can help. They can sell books using the same mechanisms to the different distributors but trumpet how much they like working with this particular business. Authors can be encouraged to send people to specific websites. Agressive facebook, twitter, and other social media campaigns. It can be done, someone just has to do it. BN should be finding a way to compete with Amazon but is failing miserably. Kobo, with its coupons, should be able to compete with Amazon but for some reason has not figured out that selling Mobi books would help them. Part of it could be that they cannot use Amazon's DRM and Publishers are refusing to allow books to be sold without DRM. In that case, the Publishers are being stupid because they are hurting Kobo and BN. Then again, Publishers could think that removing DRM might mean that Amazon starts selling EPUBs and things get even uglier for other stores since people with EPUB readers might buy from Amazon.

04-06-2012, 03:36 PM	#420
anamardoll Chasing Butterflies Posts: 3,132 Karma: 5074169 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: American Southwest Device: Uses batteries.	In my opinion, the only way to prevent Amazon exclusivity (if you're a reader) is to start buying indie novels from B&N or other places. I'm worried about Amazon exclusivity myself. But as long as the worried people just stay worried and don't start proactively buying from other places (i.e., buying on a protracted, regular basis), indie authors are going to continue posting low sales from B&N et. al. and other indies will sign up for Amazon exclusivity thinking "What's the downside?" I've been trying to buy an indie novel a day from B&N, just to sort of vote with my wallet. I'm probably getting a lot of duds, but for ~$1-3 a day, to me, it's worth it. But I'm just one person and I only like certain genres. If you don't want Amazon to become a monopoly: Buy things elsewhere! I hope that doesn't sound harsh, but for me that's just the way of things.