Death of the agency model?

[sbroome]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Everyone likes low book prices-until writers stop writing and publishers stop publishing
Then people start asking, "Why aren't there any quality books being written anymore?" or " Where are the good new authors?"
Products have to work both for the creators and for the consumers. If they work only for consumers , then producers will turn out fewer and lower quality products.
Its noteworthy that just about every supplier downstream from Amazon-MOST publishers, not just the Big Six- plus the Authors Guild -speaking through Scott Thurow- favor agency pricing. Most of Amazon's competitors also favor agency pricing . This is not to say the publishers and authors are perfect. But the fact is that just about everyone in the book industry not named Amazon came out against DOJ action . Thats boundto affect what anysettlement will look like.

I would argue that the short attention span nature of our current culture has a way bigger impact on quality of books than anything you're mentioning. You can feel the love of the language eroding and it's not because of book prices.

[JD Gumby]

Originally Posted by Ninjalawyer

It's unfortunate for your point that there's no evidence that Amazon's price cutting had any negative impact on authors.

Since, at that point, Amazon was paying a wholesale price, authors were getting exactly the same amount no matter what price Amazon set it at.

[scrapking]

Several in this thread have expressed that the resale value of used books factors into their decision to buy paper books over e-books, when the price of each is close.

Where do you guys sell your used books? I've tried to do so with limited success in the past. Maybe my niche interests aren't popular with used bookstores, but my success in the past has not been stellar. I bring in boxes of books, the used bookstore buys a few, and I cart the rest home. Transportation costs, not to mention the value of my time, easily exceed what I get for selling the books. I suspect I'll simply give my paper books away to charity booksales in the future (until they're gone, as I'm no longer purchasing paper books at all).

I've lost paper books before, or had them become damaged. I've also bought used books only to discover that there's a page missing, and because it was used there was no recourse. I think the ability to re-download the book has as much, or more, value for me as the ability to re-sell it.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by scrapking

Several in this thread have expressed that the resale value of used books factors into their decision to buy paper books over e-books, when the price of each is close.

Where do you guys sell your used books?

I mostly don't, but I do exchanged used pbooks with friends, and give some away. I rarely buy new books I don't intend to keep pretty much forever.

I've lost paper books before, or had them become damaged. I've also bought used books only to discover that there's a page missing, and because it was used there was no recourse. I think the ability to re-download the book has as much, or more, value for me as the ability to re-sell it.

I want to be able to share my books with my family, my kids' friends, my dinner guests. Being able to re-download is indeed useful, but it's a very selfish feature. I don't want literature to wind up treated like pornography... sure, we all know people who are into it, but nobody knows how much or what kinds because they don't share it, and can only really talk about it with people who've bought the same titles, possibly only those who've bought them at the same website.

[johnnyb]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

I can't speak for him, but I'm almost never willing to pay $10 for a book; when I read mostly paper, I preferred paperbacks to hardcovers (still do) and $10 was more than I was willing to pay for a new paperback. I mostly bought used, which meant no royalties to authors, and read a lot borrowed from friends, which meant the same.

I bought a few new books per year at more than $10, but almost never fiction. I'm willing to pay more than $10 for nonfic--except that I'm not willing to pay anything for DRM'd ebooks, so most of the nonfic I'm interested in has shifted to "I'll buy it used, and decide whether to read paper or chop-and-scan to read as an ebook."

I've never had an income that would keep me in books at $10 each. I don't expect to ever have an income that will allow me to buy every book I read for $10 each, or even $5 each. These days, I usually read 20k-50k words of fiction a day. While I'm very glad that many authors have released their professional works for free, I also read fanfic and public-domain texts.

I don't want this to sound rude, but lowering your words-per-day might result in higher income-per-day thus adjusting the ratio in favor of more higher priced books (some of them maybe better quality ones)...
I cannot understand what makes people read 20k words of fiction every day, maybe they should consider reading more complex instead of just more books... I think this is as bad as watching tv and misses the point of reading entirely...

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by johnnyb

I don't want this to sound rude, but lowering your words-per-day might result in higher income-per-day thus adjusting the ratio in favor of more higher priced books (some of them maybe better quality ones)...
I cannot understand what makes people read 20k words of fiction every day, maybe they should consider reading more complex instead of just more books... I think this is as bad as watching tv and misses the point of reading entirely...

Actually at 300 words a page 20K words is 66 pages and 50k is 166 pages so I don't think that is keeping anyone from smelling the roses or getting to work on time. Maybe an hour or two doing something enjoyable? Many newspapers contain a lot more than 20K words of nonadvertising content and it is generally considered acceptable to read the newspaper.

And doing what one enjoys is often relaxing and adds to the quality of time spent with family and may help the mind function better at work. It is not all about self improvement.

Helen

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by johnnyb

I don't want this to sound rude, but lowering your words-per-day might result in higher income-per-day thus adjusting the ratio in favor of more higher priced books (some of them maybe better quality ones)...

I read fast. 10k words on my lunch break is about standard; combine that with the twenty minutes on the train each way to & from work and I'm at about 20k words a day when I don't take any special time out for reading.

I cannot understand what makes people read 20k words of fiction every day, maybe they should consider reading more complex instead of just more books... I think this is as bad as watching tv and misses the point of reading entirely...

I'm happy with what--and how much--I read. I have no interest in learning to read slower to fit someone else's notions of how much "quality" reading I should be able to afford. (I am intrigued by the notion that if I read fast, it must be mostly simple fare and I'd be better reading more complicated works. Especially as a comment from someone who has, at best, very limited data about my reading habits.)

Whether I am "missing the point of reading" is, fortunately, not subject to external vote.

[RDaneel54]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Whether I am "missing the point of reading" is, fortunately, not subject to external vote.

I enjoy reading. What I read and how much and when is up to me. Which I think most folks would agree to.

I really don't understand the arrogance of some about what they read being "better" than what I read.

I pay for ebooks what I value them at. Sometimes one book may be $14.99, another free, another from the library. Many are in the $5 - $6 range.

Agency pricing is price fixing and that's OK. However, I decide if I'm going to pay it so it definitely affects my purchase decisions negatively.

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by JD Gumby

No, what it would take is for the mass market of book readers to change their buying habits. They don't see indie books at the bookstore at the mall or on the shelves at Wal-Mart or their local grocery store or their local library, so they almost never buy them. ie, the indies can not and will not win.

How many books does your Walmart still carry?
Around here the book and magazine section id shrinking almost in lockstep with the compact disk section.

Young people discover books to read in brick and morter stores exactly like young people discover music to listen to in brick and morter stores.

[JD Gumby]

Originally Posted by Phogg

How many books does your Walmart still carry?
Around here the book and magazine section id shrinking almost in lockstep with the compact disk section.

Same amount as they have ever since they opened a decade ago, actually. 3-4 wall racks' worth.

[Sydney's Mom]

Originally Posted by johnnyb

I don't want this to sound rude, but lowering your words-per-day might result in higher income-per-day thus adjusting the ratio in favor of more higher priced books (some of them maybe better quality ones)...
I cannot understand what makes people read 20k words of fiction every day, maybe they should consider reading more complex instead of just more books... I think this is as bad as watching tv and misses the point of reading entirely...

Oh my.

If I love reading Children's Highlights, that is my business, and the value of an ereader is that people can't make these types of judgments about me. I always thought I was being paranoid when I thought people were judging me based on my book covers (I don't do it to other people), but I guess there was a good reason I was concerned. Although why I care, I can't say.

[RareBird]

Originally Posted by johnnyb

I don't want this to sound rude, but lowering your words-per-day might result in higher income-per-day thus adjusting the ratio in favor of more higher priced books (some of them maybe better quality ones)...
I cannot understand what makes people read 20k words of fiction every day, maybe they should consider reading more complex instead of just more books... I think this is as bad as watching tv and misses the point of reading entirely...

Wow that's definitely on the rude and judgmental side. The implication that a persons time spent reading impacts their earnings is appalling. Further, your characterization of fiction is harsh as well. I'm a molecular biologist so should I limit my reading to only journal articles and books on molecular biology? Fiction is an enjoyable break from reality (and I also enjoy picking out the scientific inaccuracies in some of the fiction I read). I read nonfiction as well but read nonfiction typically at a slower rate so I can better assimilate the information. As for complexity, there a great deal of fiction books out there that are incredibly complex and will give your brain a workout (Anathem springs to mind for one). As to quality, I'm sure that will vary from person to person. My idea of a quality read will surely be different from someone elses more often than not.

[Wasgo]

Originally Posted by johnnyb

I don't want this to sound rude, but lowering your words-per-day might result in higher income-per-day thus adjusting the ratio in favor of more higher priced books (some of them maybe better quality ones)...
I cannot understand what makes people read 20k words of fiction every day, maybe they should consider reading more complex instead of just more books... I think this is as bad as watching tv and misses the point of reading entirely...

Two problems with this.

First, higher priced book are not necessarily higher quality. Many public domain books are more complex and considered to be a higher quality than many NY Times best sellers, regardless of price.

Second, there is no such thing as a correct reason or method to read. Every person has their own reasons and taste. If I deal with complex problems at work, what's wrong with me wanting my reading and TV watching to be on the lighter side?

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by johnnyb

I don't want this to sound rude, but lowering your words-per-day might result in higher income-per-day thus adjusting the ratio in favor of more higher priced books (some of them maybe better quality ones)...
I cannot understand what makes people read 20k words of fiction every day, maybe they should consider reading more complex instead of just more books... I think this is as bad as watching tv and misses the point of reading entirely...

Rubbish. Of course you meant to sound rude, otherwise you wouldn't have said this.

You have assumed that you know what kinds of books that Elfwreck is reading and that the quality has negatively impacted her work (and money making) abilities.

I am quite certain that there was no way you didn't think this comment was rude.

[sbroome]

I think he meant to say "with all due respect" in a Talledega Nights sort of way.