Can e-Publishing Overcome Copyright Concerns?

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

(Hey, look Ma! I have wireless access on vacation!)

You missed an equally-likely possibility:

3. You are crazy about the book, but you happen to be perfectly happy with e-book files to read. So, you keep the file without buying a print book... and since you read e-books, you probably know about the Darknet, so you search around and find ilicit copies of all the author's books, thereby collecting everything he's ever written, and not making the author a dime.

Hey, just trying to be thorough...

Originally Posted by Trenien

Side note: While I was writing down the second point, I realised something: Steve, I know you sell ebooks primarily, but have you considered setting up somekind of print-on-demand offer to catter to the people who really want a hardcopy of your work?

Yes, I've thought about it, but so far, have not seen enough evidence that it would be cost-effective for me, or worth setting up an account with a POD printer. My market is still very small, and I haven't been getting requests for POD versions... I mean, none. Maybe in the future, though.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Trenien

I'm not saying that nobody should pay for books. What I'm saying is that handing over a copy of a digital file you have is essentially the same as giving a pbook - and yes, I include P2P as a way of passing around the copy.

No, P2P isn't at all the equivalent of lending a friend a copy of a book. It's the equivalent of photocopying 1000 copies of the book and then setting up a stall by the roadside, giving them away to anyone who wants one for free.

You don't think that this can be morally justified, do you, surely?

[Liviu_5]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

(
3. You are crazy about the book, but you happen to be perfectly happy with e-book files to read. So, you keep the file without buying a print book... and since you read e-books, you probably know about the Darknet, so you search around and find ilicit copies of all the author's books, thereby collecting everything he's ever written, and not making the author a dime.

While definitely possible this version assumes that if you read an author's print book, he/she makes money from that. In an era of 1c +3.99 sh used books, libraries and library sales I am not that sure that will be always the case.

I made some statistics for myself as a big book reader - found this site goodreads which allows you lots of customizable stuff to catalogue your books, review them, so finally I have hard numbers for 2008. This year I finished 112 books to date - this does not include ss, magazines, rereads, books started, just books read from end to end and finished in 2008 and new for me. Out of them I read 79 print and 33 e. Of the 79 print books I read, I bought 34 new, 35 used/library and 10 were bought or received as review arcs - 3 eBay, 7 review copies paid in reviews not money.

And overall I bought more print books that I have not got into yet, they are mostly used. I bought 5 new print books in 2008 not fully read yet, though 3 are anthologies and 7 e not fully read, again one anthology

Of the e, I read 2 that are e-only, one bought, one free on author's site - and incidentally the one on author's site Second Body by M. Pavic, made me buy all his English language novels, 3 used, 2 new.

So while abstract pontificating is good, real life patterns are not that simple considering that of the 79 print books finished by me in 2008, only in 34 I paid the authors directly, though it's true than in the library case it can be argued that since I pay property taxes for my library system, a small part goes to the author too directly from me. That's the system and against it you should compare when talking e-book patterns, rather than abstract situations...

[nekokami]

Originally Posted by Trenien

2. You are crazy about that book, and everything else that may exist from the same author. In that case it's very likely you'll want your own nice copy of it (them). The ebook file you have stored wherever just doesn't cut it, you need a pbook, preferably a hardcover version.

Why would I want to do that? I know some people prefer paper books, and especially hardcovers, but I'm not one of them. I just don't have room for all the books I like to keep physical copies. I'd buy a license for the ebook version of that book (probably), and any others I wanted to read by that author. How likely I would be to buy the license for the file the friend gave me would depend on how likely I might be to read the book again. But that system depends on knowing that books my friends and I buy get re-read the industry average of 4-10 times each, and that's already built into the author compensation model, whereas if I read something from the darknet, the number of purchases to freeloaders is probably way off the author compensation model. If I read a "darknet" file I liked but didn't like enough to read again, if the book were at my local library I might check it out and then return it a week later, just to create a record of my interest in that author so the library would be that much more likely to buy another book by that author. If I liked a book a lot and couldn't get it as a legal ebook, I might buy a paper copy (new or used, depending on what's available) and donate it to my library or give it to a friend.

I don't think any of us can assume we know what "most people would do" based on our own behavior or what we've heard about the behavior of others. This is an area that really needs a well-designed study if we're ever going to move past assumptions and into facts.

[tirsales]

Originally Posted by nekokami

I don't think any of us can assume we know what "most people would do" based on our own behavior or what we've heard about the behavior of others. This is an area that really needs a well-designed study if we're ever going to move past assumptions and into facts.

There are several problems with a study like that:
1. Getting hard and reliable data. Who could you trust?
2. Predicting an alternative universe - what would have happened if I didnt ... Whatever you do - the study will never be able to satisfy everyone.
3. A large enough number of participants - asking e.g. 100 people about their behaviour would mean nothing. Especially because .. well - see point 1.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

(Look, Ma... wireless on da beach! Get the sand out of the SD slot...)

No study is going to give 100% accurate data... it represents samplings, statistics and projections. However, in the absence of anything save anecdotal data (which is our situation now), any study would be useful and welcome.

(Hokay, back into da water!)

[Trenien]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

(Hey, look Ma! I have wireless access on vacation!)

You missed an equally-likely possibility:

3. You are crazy about the book, but you happen to be perfectly happy with e-book files to read. So, you keep the file without buying a print book... and since you read e-books, you probably know about the Darknet, so you search around and find ilicit copies of all the author's books, thereby collecting everything he's ever written, and not making the author a dime.

Hey, just trying to be thorough...

Yes, true... Or not. I actually didn't miss it, it's irrelevant. In any and all cases, the person you're talking about will not buy the book. I think a lot of people have said it before: except if you put a cop behind everybody's shoulder, darknet will exist. The question is, do you use to your advantage, or do you fight a losing battle against it?
Again, do note I'm not talking from a moral standpoint. You don't want to go there (boy! You really don't. Life + 70 years!!?). My stance is mostly a practical one.

Yes, I've thought about it, but so far, have not seen enough evidence that it would be cost-effective for me, or worth setting up an account with a POD printer. My market is still very small, and I haven't been getting requests for POD versions... I mean, none. Maybe in the future, though.

As far as I understand, there's no cost except the time it takes to format the book. From then on, you indicate to the "editor" how much you want for each book, select how it will be (hardcover, color and so on) and that decides how much they'll sell it.
Oh well, just a thought.

[tirsales]

But you normally have to pay for each book, for each account, etc
Sometimes a monthly fee, sometimes another calculation option is used - but you normally have to pay for more than each book sold. So it really only pays off if you sell a given number of books - but OTOH I'm not an expert on this stuff, and there could very well be some services that charge only for each book sold.

[Trenien]

Originally Posted by HarryT

No, P2P isn't at all the equivalent of lending a friend a copy of a book. It's the equivalent of photocopying 1000 copies of the book and then setting up a stall by the roadside, giving them away to anyone who wants one for free.

You don't think that this can be morally justified, do you, surely?

Harry, morals has nothing to do with it. I'm talking business and reality. If you believe anything about copyright laws within the last 50 years had anything to do with moral, I'm afraid you're in for a huge disapointment.

What I wrote is what I think the best and most just solution - and the only one with a chance to work. If something of the sort isn't quickly done, I believe copyright will be gone within the next 20 years.


NB: Let me correct myself here. I actually think there's another possibility: global licencing. It'd be a bitch to set up on a global scale, but it'd work.

[Trenien]

Originally Posted by nekokami

But that system depends on knowing that books my friends and I buy get re-read the industry average of 4-10 times each, and that's already built into the author compensation model

If the industry really includes this 4-10 re-read into the price, they can go ***** hang in the wind for all I care.

[Trenien]

Originally Posted by tirsales

But you normally have to pay for each book, for each account, etc
Sometimes a monthly fee, sometimes another calculation option is used - but you normally have to pay for more than each book sold. So it really only pays off if you sell a given number of books - but OTOH I'm not an expert on this stuff, and there could very well be some services that charge only for each book sold.

I honestly don't know. I only took a cursory look at how to do it when I bought such a book a few months ago. There didn't appear to be a lower limit on the number of books you have to sell.

[tirsales]

Originally Posted by Trenien

I honestly don't know. I only took a cursory look at how to do it when I bought such a book a few months ago. There didn't appear to be a lower limit on the number of books you have to sell.

No, not a lower limit applied from the printer, but a lower limit for a rentability.


--edit:
Apparantely there are POD-Services who dont charge the author, but pay a smaller fee. Dont ask me for details, I dont know them.

[pilotbob]

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[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Trenien

I'm not saying that nobody should pay for books. What I'm saying is that handing over a copy of a digital file you have is essentially the same as giving a pbook - and yes, I include P2P as a way of passing around the copy.

Utterly false.

The critical difference is that there is one copy of a pbook, and if you pass it to someone else, you no longer have it.

If the book is in electronic form, it doesn't matter if you make it available as P2P through BitTorrent or the like, post it as an attachment in email to all of your friends, or stick it on a website for download by http or FTP. You still have a copy, and so do more than one other people.
______
Dennis

[Trenien]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Utterly false.

The critical difference is that there is one copy of a pbook, and if you pass it to someone else, you no longer have it.

If the book is in electronic form, it doesn't matter if you make it available as P2P through BitTorrent or the like, post it as an attachment in email to all of your friends, or stick it on a website for download by http or FTP. You still have a copy, and so do more than one other people.

Oh jeez. Again? The "scarcity is the only way" argument.
Look, Flint puts it better than I do: you don't build a business model (i.e. figure how to make money) and then make reality conforms to it; what you do is look at how reality is and try to build a business that works with it.

The model based on scarcity is dead (well, dying). If you can't face the new reality, tough luck. Nobody said life was fair. It just so happens that there are ways to face the issue. I won't say that what I described here is the best that there can be, but it's the best I can think of. I do know one thing though: whatever it is, the next successful model will take advantage of the non-scarcity, not fight it.

One last thing, to specifically give an answer to "you still have the file" and "the book doesn't pass around between a few friends but between hundreds or thousands of persons".
Well yes, it does. That's the whole point. That way the authors increases his exposure. And you know what, although there are no formal studies, we do have empirical evidence that it has no adverse effect (see Steve's books) and may have an overall positive effect (from everything we can hear from Baen).