Death of the agency model?

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by scrapking

- device alternatives (iBooks' success was device driven, not agency driven, IMO).

It was price driven. Apple didn't stand a chance selling ebooks through iBooks at higher prices than Amazon sold them for. Why would someone with an iPad pay $12.99 for an ebook through iBooks, when they could buy the same ebook through their Kindle app for $9.99?

If Apple could only convince the publishers to set prices and not allow retailers to discount those prices, iBooks was suddenly on equal footing with Kindle eBooks.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Many people won't pay more more than $9.99 for an ebook. So what? Clearly, many will pay more than $9.99. It really depends on what you value.

Then let's go back to the old way and allow choice. Those who won't pay more can buy their ebooks from Amazon for $9.99, while those who will pay more can buy their ebooks from Apple for $12.99. That way, both sides are happy.

Isn't choice always the best option?

[dkperez]

Not gonna happen....... $9.99 isn't going to cut it except for those people that just HAVE to be reading the latest and greatest.

Anybody that gives it even a little thought knows the cost for an e-book is incrementally miniscule compared to hard cover or paperback. And the lack of ability to recoup some of the cost by reselling the book or letting others read the book makes it less desirable than a paper book.

So, you can add $2.00 for the "joy of having an electronic copy" if you want, but it's sophistry.

In reality, there's absolutely no reason e-books shouldn't cost LESS than paperbacks, and there's equally no reason the authors shouldn't be getting a reasonable return on e-book sales.

The last EIGHT books I read were all read on paper because they weren't available as e-books for a price I was willing to pay. So they came from the library on paper. And until the prices get a LOT more reasonable, I'll keep getting the VAST majority of my books, electronic or paper, from the library. My purchases will be indie books or books on sale or free from B&N or Amazon.

And I have YET to see any real numbers that show authors selling for $.99 or $2.99 aren't making a reasonable return.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by dkperez

Anybody that gives it even a little thought knows the cost for an e-book is incrementally miniscule compared to hard cover or paperback.

Miniscule? Less certainly, but how much less? Much of a books production cost comes before it is printed, warehoused and shipped.

In reality, there's absolutely no reason e-books shouldn't cost LESS than paperbacks, and there's equally no reason the authors shouldn't be getting a reasonable return on e-book sales.

Agreed, but the question is how much less.

And I have YET to see any real numbers that show authors selling for $.99 or $2.99 aren't making a reasonable return.

Have you got numbers to say they are?

[scrapking]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

It was price driven. Apple didn't stand a chance selling ebooks through iBooks at higher prices than Amazon sold them for. Why would someone with an iPad pay $12.99 for an ebook through iBooks, when they could buy the same ebook through their Kindle app for $9.99?

If Apple could only convince the publishers to set prices and not allow retailers to discount those prices, iBooks was suddenly on equal footing with Kindle eBooks.

I think you overestimate how well educated the average consumer is. They're not all like us here on Mobileread. The huge excitement and sales success of the iPad guaranteed a market for iBooks, IMO.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by scrapking

I think you overestimate how well educated the average consumer is. They're not all like us here on Mobileread. The huge excitement and sales success of the iPad guaranteed a market for iBooks, IMO.

I haven't seen the exact sales figures, but from what I have read iBook sales are an almost total bust. Most iPad buyers (not the people here on Mobileread) apparently didn't get the device to read books. And those that did seem to prefer the other apps/stores.

[Teknikal]

Apples book prices made the whole thing a non starter, their generally higher priced than elsewhere and you can't read the books anywhere except the Apple devices with their still unremovable DRM.

Even though I own a Sony I tend to think as Apple as the bad guy and Amazon as the good guy when it comes to ebooks this is in spite of the fact I don't own a Kindle and I do own an iPod Touch 64gb.

Also for the record I will never buy ebooks that cost more than paper, you can use all the arguments you like to justify the prices but as far as I can see the main reason the prices are as high is the publishers clinging on to their old business model and trying to hold back the technology if they stay on this path they will end up irrelevant.

I'm all for the author getting a fair price but I think in the long run they may have to bypass the publishers if they want to sell well.

[vaughnmr]

Originally Posted by Dulin's Books

i dont follow th issue at all so can you link me to sources for this? authors complaining or their lawyers showing the fancy accounting?

I had to laugh when I saw this one, even I have heard about authors having problems getting paid. By the way, your web site link doesn't seem to work?

[Dulin's Books]

thanks elfwreck


vaughnmr i had heard anecdotally about authors problems with payments but i have not previously taken the time to source any first hand accounts . since it was brought up here i thought it would be good to have links to those specific complaints about the funny accounting so i could better understand the issue.

[ATimson]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Agreed, but the question is how much less.

To heck with less, I'd settle for equal. But when Amazon's selling the print version of most MMPBs I want for 25% off (effectively - "buy 4 get 1 free", even on preorders of upcoming titles), I can't justify buying the ebook version for list price.

[speakingtohe]

I buy a book based on the content (if it sounds interesting or I like the author).

In paper books I had no data to decide whether the book cost more to produce and was never into buying them by the pound.

I agree ebooks should be less, but I also think most businesses charge what they think the market will bear. Not just publishers.

Given a choice between buying a book I know I will like and getting a free book I am pretty sure I won't like my choice is clear.

But it is not that simple. There are lots of free books I might like and might start to buy other books from the author and I am not likely to pay an exhorbitant sum for any book.

But overall I would pay the same for an ebook as a pbook if that was what it took. I put more value on the story than the paper it is printed on, shipping costs etc. Of course if all the books were free and all the authors got paid, then the world would be a better place.

Helen

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Teknikal

Apples book prices made the whole thing a non starter, their generally higher priced than elsewhere and you can't read the books anywhere except the Apple devices with their still unremovable DRM.

Actually, the DRM for Apple eBooks has been cracked. There is a thread on MR about it. But because iBooks is not fully ePub compliant, there's no guarantee that that eBooks bought from Apple will work as expected outside of iBooks.

[bgalbrecht]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

In paper books I had no data to decide whether the book cost more to produce and was never into buying them by the pound.

...

But overall I would pay the same for an ebook as a pbook if that was what it took. I put more value on the story than the paper it is printed on, shipping costs etc. Of course if all the books were free and all the authors got paid, then the world would be a better place.

However, you knew, in general hardcovers cost more than trade paperback which cost more than mass market paperbacks, so you could pick your price point for the book you were interested in.

Ebook prices are fungible, there's no unchangeable price printed on the book, and the publishers typically drop the price of the ebook to match what they expect is the discounted price of the hardcover or trade paperback, but they usually set the price to the MMPB cover price once it is out. Since some retailers will discount MMPB (at least B&N will do so with their loyalty program), ebooks are usually more expensive than MMPB for me.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by bgalbrecht

However, you knew, in general hardcovers cost more than trade paperback which cost more than mass market paperbacks, so you could pick your price point for the book you were interested in.

Ebook prices are fungible, there's no unchangeable price printed on the book, and the publishers typically drop the price of the ebook to match what they expect is the discounted price of the hardcover or trade paperback, but they usually set the price to the MMPB cover price once it is out. Since some retailers will discount MMPB (at least B&N will do so with their loyalty program), ebooks are usually more expensive than MMPB for me.

Ideally this is true. But I do not wat the MMPB or any other paperback. So I pay what I have to within reason.

Kind of like my roommates who pay for a Starbucks latte because they don't want to bother using the espresso machine. Costs them 4.99 for a latte instead of $0.50 and they drink quite a lot of them.

Maybe a non sequitor as I have been accused of before, but I am not into begrudging publishers or Starbucks their profits.

It is whether it is valuable to me and if the price is too high I don't pay it and I don't just buy something because it is cheap.

Helen

[crossi]

No one buys something just because it's cheap. But they might refrain from buying something just because they feel its over priced. Sometimes the pleasure of having something is not worth the displeasure of feeling overcharged.