Call yourself an Indie Author?

[Justin Nemo]

Originally Posted by Paul Dale

Isn't the clue in the word independent?

Indie authors answer only to their readers. They use services to get their work done. They are independent in the sense that they are free to make all the choices regarding getting their product to market, and are responsible for all aspects of that process. Any deadlines are self imposed. It is the lack of constraint by a third party that makes an Indie, independent.

But they are constrained by Smashwords and others when they try to Publish/Distribute their work.

[Paul Dale]

Which is no different to the sale of any goods. The Indie still has choice. They could distribute entirely from their own web site (not feasible for all but the most famous), or pick and choose among the distributors. They want *our* business as much as we want their services.

But let's not get bogged down on point of sale; the true independence is a production process that has no third party constraint.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by teh603

Proper editing is a joke these days. Nobody bothers to proofread anymore, not even the big name guys.

I read somewhere that the publishing corporations farm out proof reading to India these days because it's cheaper. That would explain why books are so riddled with mistakes. I can speak French reasonably welll but I doubt I would be able to proof read a French book.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

I read somewhere that the publishing corporations farm out proof reading to India these days because it's cheaper. That would explain why books are so riddled with mistakes. I can speak French reasonably welll but I doubt I would be able to proof read a French book.

Alas, the farming out is true. I'll give you a true story that happened to me just this past week.

As many MR members know, I am a professional editor who specializes in medical books -- written by doctors for doctors -- and have been editing for more than 28 years.

A couple of weeks ago, I was hired by a major publisher to edit a text that was estimated to be 2,500 manuscript pages. They wanted it done in 4 weeks. As I always do, I counted the pages applying a standard-in-the-profession formula that ignores such tricks as single spacing and 7-point font. A true page count brought the project to 5300 manuscript pages.

I pointed this out to the client and advised that a technical book like the one under consideration and of its size could not be edited competently in 4 weeks; it requires at least 10 weeks. I was told to start editing and I did. The project was better written than anticipated so the likelihood was that it could be edited in 8 or 9 weeks.

Anyway, 2 weeks into the project and after 1400 edited pages, the client instructed me to halt editing. They were concerned about the budget (although they knew the price before any editing was started) and even moreso about the schedule. They wanted the project done in 4 weeks. So they took the project from me and sent it to India for editing and proofreading (I did get paid for my work, so that is not an issue), where they were told that the job would not only be done in 4 weeks but for less than half the price.

There is no way for a qualified medical editor to competently edit that amount of pages in 4 weeks. Pricing, of course, is a different matter and much depends on the location of the editor. Fortunately, my name will not be associated with the book. More important, from the client's perspective, is this: Usually when I edit a book there are few author corrections. I happen to know from inside contacts that when these books are edited offshore, there are numerous author complaints and many expensive corrections to be made. But the expense of these corrections comes from another line in the production budget, so it isn't considered a factor when deciding whether to offshore or not.

I see no reason why other books wouldn't be sent to Asia for editing and proofreading, just like the medical texts. For some publishers -- but not all, which are now international conglomerates, cost is more important than quality.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Justin Nemo

But they are constrained by Smashwords and others when they try to Publish/Distribute their work.

There's "constraint" and there's "constraint." Remember, what you are essentially doing is paying them (through royalties) to provide a service for you. Maybe they can't do everything you'd like, but those "constraints" are usually reasonable.

But even if they are "constraining," the author maintains the ability to just say no, to find another publishing route, including hiring your own webmasters and programmers and having everything done 100% your way.

[Justin Nemo]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

There's "constraint" and there's "constraint." Remember, what you are essentially doing is paying them (through royalties) to provide a service for you. Maybe they can't do everything you'd like, but those "constraints" are usually reasonable.

But even if they are "constraining," the author maintains the ability to just say no, to find another publishing route, including hiring your own webmasters and programmers and having everything done 100% your way.

I was replying to Paul Dale's post re no constraints.

Speaking as a webmaster (god I hate that word) and someone who hosts websites too, I can tell you that it's a long hard slog to be able to sell enough books from your website, especially if you you have more than one book to sell. The only way I've seen it work successfully for an unknown author is to have a website or domain name for each book title. This is expensive obviously, which is why you need people like Amazon and Smashwords to get your work in front of a large audience in a relatively short space of time.

[VydorScope]

My READERS tag my books as "indy author" therefor I am!

But mainly I agree with rhadin, HarryT, and teh603. So yes, I am in my own mind (and my readers!!! ) an indy author, though I do have a real editor now....

[VydorScope]

Originally Posted by Justin Nemo

Speaking as a webmaster (god I hate that word) and someone who hosts websites too, I can tell you that it's a long hard slog to be able to sell enough books from your website, especially if you you have more than one book to sell. The only way I've seen it work successfully for an unknown author is to have a website or domain name for each book title. This is expensive obviously, which is why you need people like Amazon and Smashwords to get your work in front of a large audience in a relatively short space of time.

There is a big difference between the ABILITY to do something and the WISDOM in doing it. Anyone can get a cheap ugly site up with one of the many cookie cutter hosts with their own domain name in hours.

Just because its stupid, and destine to fail (unless you toss real money at it in big piles for marketing, design, etc) does not mean you do not have the ability to be stupid. The indy author has that ability, contracts often/can prevent non-indy authors form doing that.

I host sites too (and build them for paying clients), and I have book on them... as a link to my Amazon/etc listings. I know enough about SEO to do well in Google.. but I still sell through established stores.

[apbschmitz]

Originally Posted by rhadin

…Anyway, 2 weeks into the project and after 1400 edited pages, the client instructed me to halt editing. They were concerned about the budget (although they knew the price before any editing was started) and even moreso about the schedule. They wanted the project done in 4 weeks. So they took the project from me and sent it to India for editing and proofreading (I did get paid for my work, so that is not an issue), where they were told that the job would not only be done in 4 weeks but for less than half the price.…

Sounds like a Dilbert cartoon. My condolences.

[Justin Nemo]

Originally Posted by VydorScope

There is a big difference between the ABILITY to do something and the WISDOM in doing it. Anyone can get a cheap ugly site up with one of the many cookie cutter hosts with their own domain name in hours.

Just because its stupid, and destine to fail (unless you toss real money at it in big piles for marketing, design, etc) does not mean you do not have the ability to be stupid. The indy author has that ability, contracts often/can prevent non-indy authors form doing that.

I host sites too (and build them for paying clients), and I have book on them... as a link to my Amazon/etc listings. I know enough about SEO to do well in Google.. but I still sell through established stores.

I wasn't saying it was stupid, just that it would take a long time with just a website alone, before you could generate the sales you could with Amazon and Smashwords etc. You must know this yourself.

[VydorScope]

Originally Posted by Justin Nemo

I wasn't saying it was stupid, just that it would take a long time with just a website alone, before you could generate the sales you could with Amazon and Smashwords etc. You must know this yourself.

For a single author striking out on his own? I do think it is a bad idea. It is smarter, IMO, to exploit the existing sales channels as much as one can.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by VydorScope

But mainly I agree with rhadin, HarryT, and teh603. So yes, I am in my own mind (and my readers!!! ) an indy author, though I do have a real editor now....

Having a "real editor" doesn't change one's status from indie to non-indie. The indie author is responsible for the editing, which means responsible for hiring and paying the professional editor, not that they should do the editing themselves.

It is the taking on of the responsibility, not the method of fulfilling it, that separates the indie from the non-indie author.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by rhadin

Having a "real editor" doesn't change one's status from indie to non-indie. The indie author is responsible for the editing, which means responsible for hiring and paying the professional editor, not that they should do the editing themselves.

It is the taking on of the responsibility, not the method of fulfilling it, that separates the indie from the non-indie author.

I would say, though, that it's taking that responsibility and hiring a professional editor that separates the "serious" author from the amateur. There are very, very few authors who are capable of editing their own work; it's a different skill-set to writing, and almost nobody can "distance" themselves from their own work sufficiently to be able to dispassionately edit it.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by Justin Nemo

I wasn't saying it was stupid, just that it would take a long time with just a website alone, before you could generate the sales you could with Amazon and Smashwords etc. You must know this yourself.

Just as it would take a long time to sell widgets if you opened a shop in your front yard. So instead you distribute to other retailers (who all have their own conditions and requirements before they will sell your widgets).

Before anyone can really call themselves an independent producer of widgets (in my eyes) they really need to do something about making sure they are likely to sell (in fact most distributors are likely to require this of you). So you make the widgets as shiny and attractive as they can be, you market widely so that people know they exist, and you create sales material (posters etc) to aid the distributor in the sale of your widgets. If, instead, you dump yourself down in the mall with your basket of widgets and wait for people to give you money for them (or to give them away) then you are not (what I would consider) an independent producer of widgets, you are merely exercising a hobby.

The parallels between this scenario and writing seem clear to me. An independently publishing author is one who does the work beyond just writing; the work that tries to get the product actually in front of readers. (The work that I find really really hard to even think about, so it usually goes in the too hard basket ... which sometimes overflows, so I pick it up and look at it again once in a while before balancing back on the top again. )

[Justin Nemo]

Originally Posted by gmw

Before anyone can really call themselves an independent producer of widgets (in my eyes) they really need to do something about making sure they are likely to sell (in fact most distributors are likely to require this of you). So you make the widgets as shiny and attractive as they can be, you market widely so that people know they exist, and you create sales material (posters etc) to aid the distributor in the sale of your widgets. If, instead, you dump yourself down in the mall with your basket of widgets and wait for people to give you money for them (or to give them away) then you are not (what I would consider) an independent producer of widgets, you are merely exercising a hobby.

The parallels between this scenario and writing seem clear to me. An independently publishing author is one who does the work beyond just writing; the work that tries to get the product actually in front of readers. (The work that I find really really hard to even think about, so it usually goes in the too hard basket ... which sometimes overflows, so I pick it up and look at it again once in a while before balancing back on the top again. )

So are you saying that just putting your book, sorry widget, on Amazon and Smashwords and maybe having a website, does not in your eyes constitute enough work to make someone an indie author? What else would they have to do to qualify?