Can e-Publishing Overcome Copyright Concerns?

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Mmm. I wonder where the fry cooks will live?

[dottedmag]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

This is just justifying stealing: "They are a bad store, so I steal from them" is not the right attitude.

"They are a bad store, and there are no other stores selling this thing at all"

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Mmm. I wonder where the fry cooks will live?

Where peasants always live... hovels.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

And when us elite are all living the high life on the Riviera, and those peasants are all in their 3rd world hovels, the world will finally be a better place. Long live the Communications Revolution.

May I suggest another book on the MR reading list: Jonathan Zittrain's The Future of the Internet and How to Stop It. (And it is available as an e-book.) It makes some strong and valid points about the ultimately unsustainable nature of the combination of the web and the computer as it exists today. That nature is at the heart of the reasons we are even discussing copyright issues, much less e-books, and I think may be more to the point here than The Rational Individual.

[Trenien]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

To be clear... why, exactly, do you believe I would be adamantly against the idea?

Well, from all of your previous posts in this thread and others, I have got the impression a basic tenet of yours was that a person could only (from a moral standpoint) enjoy a copyrighted work if they paid what was asked for it.

Was I mistaken? If so, my apologies.

[Trenien]

Originally Posted by tirsales

You could also establish a "excerpt and creative-common books"-community. That is a portal, where authors can publish some of their works for free and excerpts of other works ...
I dont know if something like that already exists - but it could interest people like e.g. me

That sounds like a very good idea. I sure would jump on such a website.

[Trenien]

Since we're on the topic of interesting readings on that subject, may I advise the whole serie of articles from Eric Flint about copyright, DRM and everything in between:

First
Second
Third
Fourth
Fifth
Sixth
Seventh
Eighth

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Trenien

Well, from all of your previous posts in this thread and others, I have got the impression a basic tenet of yours was that a person could only (from a moral standpoint) enjoy a copyrighted work if they paid what was asked for it.

Was I mistaken? If so, my apologies.

No, you're right... If I ask a consumer to pay $2.50 for a book, I expect them to pay $2.50 for the book... not to give me a dollar for it, and be satisfied that both sides made out.

But a Creative Commons license isn't just a "copy and hand out my book for free" card. CC allows the author to specify how their book can be used. If that includes my deciding that anyone buying my e-book can copy it and give a dozen copies away to others, I can say so in the license, and that's what people can do. I could also specify that the book is free to the first customer, and he can copy and distribute it as far as his ISP will let him.

But I am also within my right to specify that purchasers can not make more than one copy, or that they must delete their copy if they give a copy away. The author has a choice in what he will allow. (The consumer, as always, has the choice to adhere to the author's wishes, or ignore them as he wishes.)

The value of CC licenses generally comes in with the print-published author, who is expecting print book sales to follow his CC e-books, and make his profit that way. Again, I'm not print-published, so the CC license does little for me. It would be equally as effective if I simply picked a few books and give them away for free under a standard copyright (and it would probably result in exactly the same behavior among users, at any rate), and hope to garner more attention to my other books.

The only concern I have there is the fact that I am already making The Onuissance Cells and The First Expedition available for free, expressly for the purpose of allowing people to sample my wares, spread the word, and buy more books... so the question is, How many books do I give away? Two? Four? All but the best two? All but the worst four? What combination will produce that magical moment when a boatload of people all discover me, and start buying my material like there's no tomorrow?

And oh, yeah: How does giving books away solve copyright concerns with the other books?

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

And when us elite are all living the high life on the Riviera, and those peasants are all in their 3rd world hovels, the world will finally be a better place. Long live the Communications Revolution.

May I suggest another book on the MR reading list: Jonathan Zittrain's The Future of the Internet and How to Stop It. (And it is available as an e-book.) It makes some strong and valid points about the ultimately unsustainable nature of the combination of the web and the computer as it exists today. That nature is at the heart of the reasons we are even discussing copyright issues, much less e-books, and I think may be more to the point here than The Rational Individual.

I've read about 80 pages of "The Future Of The Internet..." before I got sidetracked by other things in my life. Those 80 pages could have been condensed into 30 pages with no loss. I'll make a point to finish it later today and/or tommorrow.

Where did I say anything about the world being a better place? I'm a "forest" person, not a "tree" person. I mention The Rational Individual because it's a good "forest" book about the forest where the "tree" of I.P. piracy is. What I see, I analyse, like the frustrated scientist I am. Doesn't mean I like the results....

(And when I get a flippant remark, I'll be flippant right back...)

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

(And when I get a flippant remark, I'll be flippant right back...)

Yeah, I admit it, I was unnecessarily snide... mea culpa.

[Ramen]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Can we just have the synopsis of their End Of The World As We Know It scenario, please?

Aaah, I see I left an impression. Excellent! *Burns' finger tapping*

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Yeah, I admit it, I was unnecessarily snide... mea culpa.

No problem, not mad. I'll leave a commentary on "The Future Of The Internet" on it's thread when I'm done. It's a slog...I wish the author wasn't so wordy (I keep getting bored and sliding into scan mode, and then having to break back out of it for a paragraph. And then getting bored again...) Read about another 50 pages, so far...

[Trenien]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

No, you're right... If I ask a consumer to pay $2.50 for a book, I expect them to pay $2.50 for the book... not to give me a dollar for it, and be satisfied that both sides made out.

But a Creative Commons license isn't just a "copy and hand out my book for free" card. CC allows the author to specify how their book can be used. If that includes my deciding that anyone buying my e-book can copy it and give a dozen copies away to others, I can say so in the license, and that's what people can do. I could also specify that the book is free to the first customer, and he can copy and distribute it as far as his ISP will let him.

But I am also within my right to specify that purchasers can not make more than one copy, or that they must delete their copy if they give a copy away. The author has a choice in what he will allow. (The consumer, as always, has the choice to adhere to the author's wishes, or ignore them as he wishes.)

The value of CC licenses generally comes in with the print-published author, who is expecting print book sales to follow his CC e-books, and make his profit that way. Again, I'm not print-published, so the CC license does little for me. It would be equally as effective if I simply picked a few books and give them away for free under a standard copyright (and it would probably result in exactly the same behavior among users, at any rate), and hope to garner more attention to my other books.

The only concern I have there is the fact that I am already making The Onuissance Cells and The First Expedition available for free, expressly for the purpose of allowing people to sample my wares, spread the word, and buy more books... so the question is, How many books do I give away? Two? Four? All but the best two? All but the worst four? What combination will produce that magical moment when a boatload of people all discover me, and start buying my material like there's no tomorrow?

And oh, yeah: How does giving books away solve copyright concerns with the other books?

Ok, so I was mistaken but I understand your position on that specific point now.

I wasn't aware you had any book available for free. If neither your writing style nor the genre you write in has seen a major change, I'd guess two books ought to be enough to promote your work. The next question is: where are they available? Have you considered sending copies to some prominent bloggers (Doctorow comes to mind) to get a bit of exposition?
In short, do you feel you've used the internet to the best of your abilities to get word of mouth?

As for CC, I feel they're very interesting because although I just can't bring myself to see anything wrong with somebody giving a copy of an ebook he happens to have (which, considering the medium, I pretty much feel is essentially the same as handing over a copy of a pbook), I am very much against anybody making a profit out of copyrighted work without the author getting his share. CC permits exactly that.

As a side note, I hesitated a bit before writting down that last comment, but it does cover my philosophical viewpoint on the whole copyright/filesharing issue.

Well, I guess I've now made mortal ennemies out of some people on the forum...

[nekokami]

Not a mortal enemy, but I do disagree with you. My favorite authors need to eat, and one of them just lost his house to bankruptcy. It might be the case that in the future nobody can make a living from creating static, easily shared content like books, but I'd be very sorry to see that happen.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by Trenien

As for CC, I feel they're very interesting because although I just can't bring myself to see anything wrong with somebody giving a copy of an ebook he happens to have (which, considering the medium, I pretty much feel is essentially the same as handing over a copy of a pbook),

Well, are you deleting all your copies of the file with no way to recover it after giving it to someone else? If so, then that would be the same as giving someone a pbook.

BOb