Konrath and friends take on Turow

[ProfCrash]

(giggles) That was a fun read.

Enter Steve Jobs. Two years ago January, one month after B&N shipped its first Nook, Jobs introduced Apple's iPad, with its proven iTunes-and-apps agency model for digital content. Five of the largest publishers jumped on with Apple's model, even though it meant those publishers would make less money on every e-book they sold.

Joe: Translation: Authors would also make less money.

Isn't Scott Turow president of the [offensive word deleted - MODERATOR] AUTHORS GUILD?

Is a favorite of mine.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by TimW

Those are salient points. I recently visited Joseph-Beth Booksellers and browsed for a bit. It's over an hours drive from home so I don't visit often. While my sciatic nerve screams at me, I'm flipping through a book with an interesting cover. I'm not sure if I want it. I'm wishing for some reviews to pop in my head. I check the blurb on the back cover: "It's great! S'wunderful! Changed my life!" Okay, not helpful. Rather than chancing the $20, I erred on the side of caution. For me, the bookstore can no longer be the primary source for "trying new genres and new authors." Twenty years ago (when I was younger!), it certainly was.

This, so much. (There's a trending SpooniesHateOutsideBecause on Twitter dealing with disabilities acting up when away from the house.)

Let's say I want to go to a nice, pretty B&N. The nearest one is about a 45 minute drive away, which is a *lot* of gentle bumpy roads get my pseudoarthrosis good and inflamed.

Then when I get there, I get to walk all over the gigantic store, carrying more and more heavy books, and standing the whole time because my B&N thinks chairs are for free-loaders and communists.

Then I get to try to stand in line with my heavy books, carry them out to the car, and drive home the 45 minute drive, while aching profusely and trying not to let my back pain interfere with my safe driving.

And all that has to be done on a Saturday, because there's no way I can make time or spoons in my schedule to do that on a work day. But what I *can* do on a work day is browse over to B&N.com and buy a dozen indie books without breaking a seat.

I'm not the majority of people in America. But the minority of people with pain issues like mine isn't a particularly SMALL minority. There's a reason why back pain commercials on TV constitute like, every 4th commercial.

But why should the TradPubs have to think about people with disabilities? Screw them; we don't want their money. The money probably smells like BenGay anyway.

[Apache]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

I find that assertion interesting. Probably they were trying to contrast "bookstore browsing" with "internet searching" where in the former you waltz into a bookstore with a paycheck burning a hole in your pocket and in the latter you go to Amazon, search for a single title, buy and leave.

But it's silly because many people walk into bookstores for a single title, buy, and leave; and many people browse online stores for lots of titles.

Also, I continue to be frustrated that TradPubs think that everyone on earth is able-bodied, privileged, and geo-locationally ABLE to waltz into a mega-store any time they want. /side-rant

TL;DR: I doubt the veracity of this "study".

I can remember, 30 or 40 years ago, driving to every place that sold books in town looking for a specific book. I would even drive to towns that were 90 miles away. The things we would do for our addictions.
Apache

[Penforhire]

Thanks for the link. Barry Eisler is a favorite of mine and this only cements my opinion of him.

[caleb72]

I echo what others have written. In the 547 days (couldn't resist) that I've been ereading, I've at least quadrupled the amount of authors I recognise and will read books from. My wish list at Amazon incorporates genres I rarely looked at when in a physical bookstore.

[pidgeon92]

I hadn't purchased a novel to read in more than ten years until I got my ereader. I went to the library instead, not so much to save money, but to not have books that I had no place to store in my home.

Now I buy probably a dozen or more novels a month. I suspect I'm not the only one.

[Blue Tyson]

Originally Posted by Penforhire

Thanks for the link. Barry Eisler is a favorite of mine and this only cements my opinion of him.

Yeah, his books are really good.

[Blue Tyson]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

This, so much. (There's a trending SpooniesHateOutsideBecause on Twitter dealing with disabilities acting up when away from the house.)

Let's say I want to go to a nice, pretty B&N. The nearest one is about a 45 minute drive away, which is a *lot* of gentle bumpy roads get my pseudoarthrosis good and inflamed.

Then when I get there, I get to walk all over the gigantic store, carrying more and more heavy books, and standing the whole time because my B&N thinks chairs are for free-loaders and communists.

Then I get to try to stand in line with my heavy books, carry them out to the car, and drive home the 45 minute drive, while aching profusely and trying not to let my back pain interfere with my safe driving.

And all that has to be done on a Saturday, because there's no way I can make time or spoons in my schedule to do that on a work day. But what I *can* do on a work day is browse over to B&N.com and buy a dozen indie books without breaking a seat.

I'm not the majority of people in America. But the minority of people with pain issues like mine isn't a particularly SMALL minority. There's a reason why back pain commercials on TV constitute like, every 4th commercial.

But why should the TradPubs have to think about people with disabilities? Screw them; we don't want their money. The money probably smells like BenGay anyway.

Yep. In the two hours wasted going to a bookshop I could have read another couple. And the money spent doing so could have bought another!

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by J. Strnad

I didn't make it all the way through, but their comments did make me wonder if Scott Turow was president of the Author's Guild or the Publisher's Guild.

My thoughts, also.

[xg4bx]

Originally Posted by Blue Tyson

Yep. In the two hours wasted going to a bookshop I could have read another couple. And the money spent doing so could have bought another!

i'm glad to see i'm not the only one who thinks that way lol. i get angry at myself for wasting time and money that could have been spent reading or buying books.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by Synamon

I nodded along to the response to Turow by David Gaughran that they linked, titled Scott Turow: Wrong About Everything. I especially liked this reality check:

[Turow] This was a game-changer, and not in a good way. Amazon’s predatory pricing would shield it from e-book competitors that lacked Amazon’s deep pockets.

[Gaughran] Competitors like the most valuable company in the world, Apple? Or the internet search giant, Google? (Both of whom have far deeper pockets than Amazon.)

The question isn't whether Apple or Google have deeper pockets than Amazon. The question is whether they are willing to and capable of spending the money needed to compete against Amazon in what would be for Apple and Google niche product lines.

Remember that unlike Amazon, Apple and Google consistently think in terms of profit, giving return to shareholders; Bezos, unlike Apple and Google, is willing to lose scads of money and not give shareholders a return.

If we are going to name companies that could fund a competitor to Amazon, we shouldn't leave out ExxonMobil and IBM, among others. Yet I doubt these companies would be willing to spend the money needed to get into a price war regarding ebooks.

For none of the named companies -- except Amazon -- are books in any format a core business. They are peripheral businesses.

[rhadin]

I guess, once again, I'm the outcast. First, I think the marketing surveys are accurate. They certainly reflect my habits and those of people I know. More importantly, as large as the online bookselling marketplace is, more books are still bought at b&m stores. That may be changing, but it hasn't changed yet.

Second, every naysayer (and me, too, as a non-naysayer) regarding the marketing surveys isn't buttressing the contrary view with any fact, just anecdotal evidence or personal experience. Which leads me to one of the failings in MR discussions: too many of us take as established fact that represents the views of the majority (or even a plurality) of book buyers and readers both anecdotal evidence that supports our perspective or our own personal experience -- and we become adamant that our "facts" are the only true "facts". Perhaps we are deluding ourselves.

The other thing that needs considering is what is meant by "bought," "buying," and similar terms. Have we "bought" a book that we obtained for free? And if our to-be-read pile grows geometrically, especially with free ebooks, is that an indication that we are broadening our searches or does it indicate that we simply think a book might someday interest us and so we grab it while it is free?

As for Scott Turow and the Author's Guild, I am of two minds. First, I abhor agency pricing because I think the ebooks are overpriced when I consider the limitations imposed, especially DRM. OTOH, I think in the absence of agency pricing, Amazon's competition would rapidly disappear. Apple and Google may have deep pockets but they are unwilling, historically, to run at a loss, especially in peripheral businesses. I think once Amazon effectively controls the ebook market, ebookers will be shocked by the sudden price increases as Amazon tries to change loss to profit virtually over night. There is no reason to think Amazon would act unlike any other monopolist has acted when it comes to pricing.

Finally, to point at some books that I like and say I couldn't find them in my local b&m store is a red herring argument. No intelligent consumer expects a local b&m store to carry 100% of everything. More importantly, local b&m stores have to cater to the people who buy there, not to those who simply browse and then buy online.

[sabredog]

Conversely, not many people have time to go down to a bookshop and spend time turning pages, looking for a selection.

The dynamic is changing and certainly here in Australia, very quickly. Online purchasing take-up is growing exponentially, which is why the retail tycoons are bemoaning the fact they are not going to be able to keep ripping off an increasingly savvy consumer any more.

I have stated this before and now do so again. Locally, if I go into a Dymocks store, chances are the book will not be in stock and never will be as it is simply not on their catalogue. After the fiasco back in October last year when trying to buy books for my oldest and youngest daughters, I will NEVER buy in a bricks and mortar store again.

Rude uninformed staff with no knowledge of their area of business.

Businesses come and go and that includes models of business. Adaptation is essential to any form of evolution. The Authors Guild and their mates in the publishing industry have proved that clinging on to the old way must be at all cost. It is like they are all afraid of the future and refuse to come out into the light from those warm and safe recesses of the caves they are cowering in.

Agency pricing is simply another set of rose tinted glasses employed by the publishers so they can feel warm and fuzzy about protecting their outmoded system of distribution and loyalties. Problem is, those rose tinted glasses are heading the same way as Zaphod Beeblebrox's sunglasses....

I wonder if the owners of saddler's felt the same as they shrunk to a niche market, whilst that arrogant upstart Henry Ford introduced mass produced automobiles to the world.

"Them durned horseless carriages, just a fad I tell' ya!"

[Blue Tyson]

Originally Posted by rhadin

I think once Amazon effectively controls the ebook market, ebookers will be shocked by the sudden price increases as Amazon tries to change loss to profit virtually over night. There is no reason to think Amazon would act unlike any other monopolist has acted when it comes to pricing.

Apart from their past behaviour, that is.

And if they suddenly did indulge in say, 100% price rise price fixing, there's a likely precedent where they can be sued, similarly.

For Australian consumers my bet is that Amazon getting more of the market means a better deal.

Because Google is useless at selling media here.

Apple loves to double charge their already expensive prices. So do the oligopolistic price fixers - and triple charge.

Plus, this takes money away from Rupert Murdoch.

And if Amazon goes crazy and institutes massive price rises and Apple and Google go along then money will start to flow to independents who will then have greater opportunity to exploit without price fixing.

[DrNefario]

I don't think the online stores really have discovery sorted. A good bookshop will have a nice display of what's new and significant in your chosen area, as well as more general stuff that might catch your eye as you walk through. And then there's what you can tell by browsing the shelves.

I don't think online stores' filtering and recommending is quite as successful, yet. It might well get there, but I rarely feel like I know what the movers and shakers of my genre are.

That's nothing to do with ebooks, though. It's exactly the same buying pbooks online, and it would be the same if the books in the store were dummies that got me an ebook.

And it will get better, online.