U.S. Justice Dept. to Sue Publishers, Apple, for Price Collusion?

[stonetools]

I think it's kind of disingenuous to maintain that agency pricing hurts small and medium sized retailers . On the contrary, those are the ones who are most in favor of agency pricing. They see Amazon's biggest advantage as its ability to undercut their prices while remaining in business because they make their money selling other stuff. No more talk please of why small retailers would do better going up against Amazon without agency pricing. THEY don't see it that way and never have.

[sabredog]

Another article of interest for those wanting to read more.

http://gigaom.com/2012/03/08/doj-war...e-coming-down/

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by stonetools

I think it's kind of disingenuous to maintain that agency pricing hurts small and medium sized retailers . On the contrary, those are the ones who are most in favor of agency pricing. They see Amazon's biggest advantage as its ability to undercut their prices while remaining in business because they make their money selling other stuff. No more talk please of why small retailers would do better going up against Amazon without agency pricing. THEY don't see it that way and never have.

Agency pricing hurts consumers. And it hurts the market place, because it keeps stores that cannot compete (and those are not always the small ones, look at B&N) on life support.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Im sorry but there's more to it than that. According to a recent supreme court opinion a manufacturer can set minimum Prices for its goods under a doctrine called resale Price Maintainence . The court may just find that a group of manufacturers can do the same thing under certain conditions.

And they might not.
The sun might go nova, tomorrow; or it might not.
Anybody can postulate anything that might happen. Or not.

Now, *you* may think the publishers are golden but, apparently, the DOJ staff of lawyers begs to differ. Apparently, *they* think that 5 publishers and one retailer conspiring to fix and *raise* prices, for *whatever* declared reason, are breaking the law.

And, let's face it: the opinion that matters is the DOJ's because they're the ones getting ready to file antitrust charges on the basis of the *evidence* they have, which includes testimony and documents from all the relevant players. (Have you seen them? I'd love to see them myself.)

The ball is the DOJ's hands, they make the call now.

[sabredog]

It is not only the US DOJ either. The EU is also looking at agency pricing in detail as well.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by stonetools

I think it's kind of disingenuous to maintain that agency pricing hurts small and medium sized retailers .

And again: US antitrust is first and foremost about protecting *consumers*.

Try this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...mer_protection

Anti-competitive agreements among competitors, such as price fixing and customer and market allocation agreements, are typical types of restraints of trade proscribed by the antitrust laws. These type of conspiracies are considered pernicious to competition and are generally proscribed outright by the antitrust laws.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

And again: US antitrust is first and foremost about protecting *consumers*.

Try this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...mer_protection

First of all I think you are right that the high court might go either way. My point is that it won't be a slam dunk for the DOJ. Also if you read the antitrust laws you cite the laws are supposed to help the consumer by promoting competition. The publishers claim that agency pricing promotes competition among retailers and thus would help theconsumer in the long run.
Now the DOJ doesn't buy that argument but the supremes have bought a similar argument in the past.
Frankly the thought of an Amazon that dominates the market gives me pause. They would control book prices and be able to dictate terms to publishers and authors alike. Maybe the court might see it that way too.
In any case I'm glad I don't have to make that choice. I see shades of grey here not pure, baby Jesus innocent Amazon against Satanic publishers.

[DiapDealer]

No more talk please of why small retailers would do better going up against Amazon without agency pricing. THEY don't see it that way and never have.

That's ludicrous.
The ability to create their own unique discount systems (Fictionwise's Micropay for instance) was one of the only things that small ebook-only retailers had going for them. They could reward their loyal customers with special discounts to keep them coming back. Agency pricing took that ability away from them (and others like them) and it gutted their business. They simply can't compete selling agency published books anymore without those loyalty discount systems. So they don't sell agency books anymore. So no more talk please of how agency pricing was all unicorns and rainbows for everyone except Amazon. Agency pricing threw a lot of babies out with the bathwater.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by =X=

Finally some head way is being made, hopefully this will help return eBooks to more practical prices.


Didn't they start the investigation a year before the DOJ?

=X=

No, that isn't going to happen. If the agency model is declared illegal, then the publishers will time box ebooks so that Amazon's predatory pricing doesn't destroy the hard back book market.

Lee

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by leebase

No, that isn't going to happen. If the agency model is declared illegal, then the publishers will time box ebooks so that Amazon's predatory pricing doesn't destroy the hard back book market.

Lee

It's possible, but they tried windowing before and stopped because it didn't work.

[FizzyWater]

Originally Posted by Synamon

If the agency model was so gosh-darn necessary to protect the little guy from big bad Amazon, why didn't the Big 6 insist on it for paper books?

*crickets*

Exactly this.

Actually, if they had instituted this pricing for ALL books, I wouldn't have loved it and I still would have bought fewer books, but I wouldn't have stopped buying ANY books because it would at least be "fair" (in terms of it being applied to all readers, not just readers who prefer to read digital copies).

[Darqref]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

I suspect these are either released by the author after reclaiming the rights to the stories, or are bootlegs. (I hope they're from Bujold.) They don't seem to be from Baen.

It's even easier. Baen buys Non-exclusive world-wide ebook rights. (with some exceptions) Their authors have always been able to offer their own ebooks elsewhere, although I've never seen one offered elsewhere before they're actually published with Baen.

I've seen most of Bujold's backlist on Fictionwise (before they were bought..), at least, the part from Baen.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

And again: US antitrust is first and foremost about protecting *consumers*.

Try this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...mer_protection

Originally Posted by FizzyWater

Exactly this.

Actually, if they had instituted this pricing for ALL books, I wouldn't have loved it and I still would have bought fewer books, but I wouldn't have stopped buying ANY books because it would at least be "fair" (in terms of it being applied to all readers, not just readers who prefer to read digital copies).

In fact independent booksellers are advocating for agency pricing to be extended to all books.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by stonetools

In fact independent booksellers are advocating for agency pricing to be extended to all books.

Look publishers, see that wretched creature crawling on the floor? That is the book buying consumer. Why don't you hit him over the head again to finish the job? He is still moving in agony.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

That's ludicrous.
The ability to create their own unique discount systems (Fictionwise's Micropay for instance) was one of the only things that small ebook-only retailers had going for them. They could reward their loyal customers with special discounts to keep them coming back. Agency pricing took that ability away from them (and others like them) and it gutted their business. They simply can't compete selling agency published books anymore without those loyalty discount systems. So they don't sell agency books anymore. So no more talk please of how agency pricing was all unicorns and rainbows for everyone except Amazon. Agency pricing threw a lot of babies out with the bathwater.

I take your point that agency pricing did not allow for certain types of discounting that may have been favorable for smaller retailers. The problem is that even with that Fictionwise had a sliver of the market and may not have been making any money. Heck, if they had been doing well, why sell out to BN?
Secondly the agency pricing model can be modified to allow for those kinds of discounts and probably will be as part of a settlement.
My point is not that agency pricing is unicorns and rain bows. I prefer lower prices in short term just as much as any consumer. My point is that the other side has a reasonable argument to make as well.