U.S. Justice Dept. to Sue Publishers, Apple, for Price Collusion?

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Setting aside indie publishers & authors... Baen doesn't seem to support agency pricing. (I suspect their ebooks aren't on Amazon because at first, they wouldn't tolerate DRM; later, Amazon won't tolerate them selling the books in bundles.)

Baen supports the Agency model. As does Smashwords.

This is why Baen's ebooks aren't available on Amazon.

[TimW]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Scott Turrow, President of the Authors Guild, says the DOJ actions are "Grim News"...

http://blog.authorsguild.org/2012/03...row-grim-news/

Then Amazon dropped its bombshell: as it announced the launch of the Kindle, publishers learned that Amazon would be selling countless frontlist e-books at a loss.

It's amazing how Turow can see "countless frontlist e-books" when the books in question are among a very finite number of (current) NY Times bestsellers. His screed is absurd.

[HansTWN]

Don't you all love how the big 6 publishers are looking out for the small book stores? I have tears in my eyes while I am writing this. Shame on us consumers for wanting lower prices.

[Fbone]

How do we know ebook prices will be lower?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

They can compete with
1) Personalized customer service
2) Loyalty discounts
3) Better UI--good search, better info about the books
4) Additional activities on the site that draw in users. (If tor.com had a bookstore, it'd be solidly competing with B&N for its titles.)
5) Selection: carrying content not available at Amazon or B&N. (For example, some foreign language books, or some types of erotica, or better-formatted works.)

That sounds like Fictionwise before the agency publishers caused all that to change.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by Fbone

How do we know ebook prices will be lower?

I don't quite understand the question.

I do think we know that Amazon will, if allowed, use its greater financial muscle to gain an eBook monopoly, while the sales of higher-priced paper books dwindle to near-nothing. During however many years its takes to crush independent bookstores and B&N, eBook prices will be lower.

Maybe Amazon would, like WalMart, continue to have a low price corporate culture even after putting virtually all the ma's and pa's out of business. But you can't have a boatload of non-bundled loss leaders forever. A more likely scenario is that predatory pricing is just a temporary tactic leading to much higher prices than before the battle.

Is this true:

Two years after the agency model came to bookselling, Amazon is losing its chokehold on the e-book market: its share has fallen from about 90% to roughly 60%.

If it is true, then the rest of what Turow writes pretty much follows.

If Amazon would stop competing with libraries through its Amazon Lending Library, and would stop directing advertising to get me to buy what I borrow from public libraries, I might feel a little more neutrality here.

[vaughnmr]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

I don't quite understand the question.

I do think we know that Amazon will, if allowed, use its greater financial muscle to gain an eBook monopoly, while the sales of higher-priced paper books dwindle to near-nothing. During however many years its takes to crush independent bookstores and B&N, eBook prices will be lower.

Maybe Amazon would, like WalMart, continue to have a low price corporate culture even after putting virtually all the ma's and pa's out of business. But you can't have a boatload of non-bundled loss leaders forever. A more likely scenario is that predatory pricing is just a temporary tactic leading to much higher prices than before the battle.

Is this true:

Two years after the agency model came to bookselling, Amazon is losing its chokehold on the e-book market: its share has fallen from about 90% to roughly 60%.

If it is true, then the rest of what Turow writes pretty much follows.

If Amazon would stop competing with libraries through its Amazon Lending Library, and would stop directing advertising to get me to buy what I borrow from public libraries, I might feel a little more neutrality here.

This is all just a bunch of bull-crap, and I get tired of hearing it. Last week it was the pirates that were going to cause the end of the world, now it's Amazon. Frankly I hope the big 6 learn a big expensive legal lesson from all this.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

If Amazon would stop competing with libraries through its Amazon Lending Library, and would stop directing advertising to get me to buy what I borrow from public libraries, I might feel a little more neutrality here.

Amazon Prime books compete with Libraries?
Uh, how many libraries carry self-published books? That *is* the core of their catalog, remember.

[fjtorres]

One more time:

Six companies simultaneously fixed ebook prices at the same *higher* levels, forbidding discounting, and resulting in clear, measurable harm to consumers.
Whether it hurts Amazon or not is irrelevant to the trustbusters.
Whether they "meant well" or not is irrelevant.

If Amazon *had* done something wrong, *they* would be on the carpet facing the DOJ; they *were* investigated too, you know.
For all we know, their day in front of the trustbusters is right around the corner. Random house, too. And don't be sure B&N gets off scott-free. Once one of the BPHs rolls, the dominoes start falling and there's a lot more players benefitted from the scam than meets the eye.

Big money-making companies conspired, consumers were hurt, the feds are not amused. (And it's an election year.) That is the bottom line.

All else is just posturing and finger-pointing.

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

One more time:

Six companies simultaneously fixed ebook prices at the same *higher* levels, forbidding discounting, and resulting in clear, measurable harm to consumers.

From what I read about this the wholesale prices were higher pre-Agency than the 70% received the publishers receive now. $12.99 but Amazon charged $9.99 and so losing $3 on each sale at least for the NYT bestsellers. A few as much as $5.
Also, heard how the publishers earned more money on average per ebook prior to Agency contracts.

So, if the publishers just went back to higher wholesale costs, it would seem the only way we see lower prices is if Amazon sells them at a loss. Other retailers may or may not match their price. Who can afford to?

Added: We don't know what the wholesale costs were before so as to compare with now for most books. Is it realistic to expect $9.99 or $12.99 ebooks to sell for substantially less?

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Amazon Prime books compete with Libraries?
Uh, how many libraries carry self-published books? That *is* the core of their catalog, remember.

Do you have evidence for this?

I just checked on my daughter's prime student account. Even though she isn't eligible for the lending library, I could bring up the most popular lending library titles through the technique explained in a post here. The top three titles were published by Scholastic. Going deeper into the list, there seem to be a mix of books that are and aren't from traditional publishers.

Amazon Lending Library directly competes with public libraries by lending bestsellers, with no waiting, that require a public library reserve. For example, I found 59 people waiting for one of 6 copies of The Litigators, as an eBook, at my local public library, via overdrive, or you can get it immediately via the Amazon Lending Library. It this only results in the public library wait list being shorter, there will be no harm. But if it causes more affluent people, who now make financial contributions to public libraries, to instead pay for Prime, there will be harm. It's too soon to know.

[TimW]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

Do you have evidence for this?

I just checked on my daughter's prime student account. Even though she isn't eligible for the lending library, I could bring up the most popular lending library titles through the technique explained in a post here. The top three titles were published by Scholastic. Going deeper into the list, there seem to be a mix of books that are and aren't from traditional publishers.

Amazon Lending Library directly competes with public libraries by lending bestsellers, with no waiting, that require a public library reserve. For example, I found 59 people waiting for one of 6 copies of The Litigators, as an eBook, at my local public library, via overdrive, or you can get it immediately via the Amazon Lending Library. It this only results in the public library wait list being shorter, there will be no harm. But if it causes more affluent people, who now make financial contributions to public libraries, to instead pay for Prime, there will be harm. It's too soon to know.

The Litigators is not in the Prime Lending Library. To my knowledge, there are absolutely no Agency books in the PLL.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Plaid!

Oddly enough, I've been rereading the full set over the past few weeks.
The early ones are actually a lot raunchier than the demonic ones.
Not quite the way I remembered it.

I prefer straight-up raunch to the later years of ZOMG I AM A VERY OLD MAN WHO IS TOTALLY OBSESSED WITH YOUNG GIRL JAILBAIT.

Jim Hines had a really great post calling out the latest Xanth novel on this. There's a point at which something stops being quirky and starts being creepy.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by TimW

The Litigators is not in the Prime Lending Library.

You are right. I make a mistake in following the search method.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

They can compete with

1) Personalized customer service
. . .
3) Better UI--good search, better info about the books
. . .

I know you are not talking about Amazon directly here, but I am always perplexed when I read how great Amazon's ebookstore's UI is and how great its customer service is.

The customer service is better than that of its competitors, but I wouldn't call it anything close to great.

I've never found its UI to be good. In fact, years ago I bought books at Amazon until it made changes to its UI and I found it much more difficult to find what I was looking for. Occasionally, I look at Amazon these days and still see a UI I find difficult to like. I personally prefer the B&N IU, although I recognize that is not a popular position on MR.