U.S. Justice Dept. to Sue Publishers, Apple, for Price Collusion?

[cjr72]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Frankly , I don't think that there is any way in the long run that small ebook stores can compete with Amazon or BN. The people the DoJ might have the most sympathy for is the small independent B&M booksellers who complain, rightly, that they were showplaces for Amazon: people would browse thir stores, accept advice from their staff, and then go home and buy from Amazon.

I don't really buy the showcase aspect when it comes to bookstores. A book is a book is a book. You don't need to compare its physical qualities to others. And the main advantages besides price of the online retailers is the reviews, recommendation engine, people who bought this bough this, and of course the much deeper selection. All those things largely obviate the need to travel to the bookstore to ask an employee about certain books that they likely didn't read and may well not be in stock. Specialty bookstores may be a different story.

[TimW]

Originally Posted by stonetools

(snip)

Frankly , I don't think that there is any way in the long run that small ebook stores can compete with Amazon or BN. The people the DoJ might have the most sympathy for is the small independent B&M booksellers who complain, rightly, that they were showplaces for Amazon: people would browse thir stores, accept advice from their staff, and then go home and buy from Amazon. THEY want agency pricing extended to physical books. Frankly, everyone in the book industry supports agency pricing EXCEPT Amazon. I've yet to see anyone doubt that Amazon would not achieve complete dominance in the ebook market without agency pricing, which would be an unacceptable outcome for the DOJ.

No one in the DoJ seemed to have much sympathy for small B&M booksellers 15-20 years ago when they were eradicated by B&N and Borders. Ruthless as it was, it was "just business." I don't know about anyone else, but I don't see Amazon returning to "complete dominance" if/when the Agency agreement is eliminated. Why? An analogy...did the iPad have market dominance two years ago? Sure, the iPad WAS the tablet market...it did not have an equal. The iPad no longer dominates absolutely. It still dominates but not absolutely. The iPad now has some decent competition. Using that analogy, I would posit that there's no likelihood that Amazon could re-establish 90% dominance with a "NYT bestsellers are $9.99 unless otherwise marked" policy. Kobo, B&N, and others now have established bookstores. It won't be that easy to recover pre-Agency marketshare.

The NYT had a story yesterday entitled Government Pressuring Publishers to Adjust Pricing Policy on E-Books. They made the lazy mistake of repeating the revisionist history of "Amazon sold nearly all ebooks at $9.99 or less." I wrote a post elaborating that the policy was "NYT bestsellers are $9.99 unless otherwise marked," not ALL or nearly all. Although they didn't print my post, they quietly corrected the text to read:

Discussions between Apple and the publishers developed two years ago as publishers grew frustrated with Amazon’s practice of pricing most newly released and best-selling electronic books at $9.99. That price was sometimes below what Amazon paid publishers for the books and was aimed at lifting the sales of e-books and Amazon’s Kindle e-reader.

Better late than never, I suppose.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

I like the idea of a Fantatic, though. It's like a little bug that instead of drinking blood, it subsists on fruit-flavored sodas.

A Xanth fan?

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by John F

Why not run it by the DOJ (or SEC or whoever) first.

Random House's legal staff apparently told them to sit back and wait...
...and they not only avoided the worst of the early bad publicity, they've also avoided the DOJ, so far.
So somebody there smelled trouble.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Frankly , I don't think that there is any way in the long run that small ebook stores can compete with Amazon or BN.

They can compete with
1) Personalized customer service
2) Loyalty discounts
3) Better UI--good search, better info about the books
4) Additional activities on the site that draw in users. (If tor.com had a bookstore, it'd be solidly competing with B&N for its titles.)
5) Selection: carrying content not available at Amazon or B&N. (For example, some foreign language books, or some types of erotica, or better-formatted works.)

And possibly other ways. Your belief that they "can't compete" is not a basis for a legal ruling. It's likely that the biggest threat to a small ebook store is that, if it's successful enough, Amazon will attempt to *buy* it to shut it down, like B&N did with Fictionwise.

Frankly, everyone in the book industry supports agency pricing EXCEPT Amazon.

I am in the book industry. (A very tiny niche of the book industry, but I am professionally involved with a publishing company.) I do not support agency pricing.

Setting aside indie publishers & authors... Baen doesn't seem to support agency pricing. (I suspect their ebooks aren't on Amazon because at first, they wouldn't tolerate DRM; later, Amazon won't tolerate them selling the books in bundles.)

Are you under the impression that ebook stores are not "in the book industry?" Because many of those don't like agency pricing. They'd like to offer discounts to loyal customers. They'd like to offer "your first purchase is half price" incentives.

I've yet to see anyone doubt that Amazon would not achieve complete dominance in the ebook market without agency pricing, which would be an unacceptable outcome for the DOJ.

If Amazon uses illegal methods, profit-juggling between several branches of the company to cover losses in whatever areas it takes to drive out competition to achieve market dominance, an anti-trust lawsuit will be launched against Amazon. This can happen even if they become the *only* online store (which isn't going to happen); I remember phone prices before & after the original AT&T split.

If they use legal methods ... there are no laws against one company being the best deal available.

[BeccaPrice]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

(I suspect their ebooks aren't on Amazon because at first, they wouldn't tolerate DRM; later, Amazon won't tolerate them selling the books in bundles.)

Whatever Baen's disagreement with Amazon was, it seems to have been resolved, because I found several of Lois Bujold's books, published by Baen, on Amazon.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by BeccaPrice

Whatever Baen's disagreement with Amazon was, it seems to have been resolved, because I found several of Lois Bujold's books, published by Baen, on Amazon.

Interesting. I'd looked and not found any. (Ebooks, that is. Baen pbooks are sold through Amazon.) Looking again, I found some ebooks, but not listed as published by Baen, but by "Amazon Digital Services."

Cryoburn has no ebook edition. Nor do the other Vorkosigan novels. The only Vorkosigan ebooks I found were the novellas: Mountains of Morning (Free at the Baen library), Weatherman (later incorporated into The Vor Game), Labyrinth, Borders of Infinity (Unclear whether the Kindle version is the single story or the collection by the same name), and Winterfair Gifts. They're $3.99 each for the Kindle versions.

I suspect these are either released by the author after reclaiming the rights to the stories, or are bootlegs. (I hope they're from Bujold.) They don't seem to be from Baen.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

A Xanth fan?

Heh. Used to be, before he got obsessed with panties.

[Zeebra]

I'd like to know what took the Justice department so long...

[Ninjalawyer]

Originally Posted by HarryT

fanatic

f-a-n-a-t-i-c

No extra "t" in the middle, please.

What an inctiteful and on-ptoint post, I think we've all been embiggened by reading it.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

Heh. Used to be, before he got obsessed with panties.

Plaid!

Oddly enough, I've been rereading the full set over the past few weeks.
The early ones are actually a lot raunchier than the demonic ones.
Not quite the way I remembered it.
.
.
.
Anyway, I'm oddly surprised that the DOJ is acting this *fast* on the Price Fix scam; not sure if the recent criticism of their "inaction" on antitrust is fast-tracking their effort to get the case settled or rolling before the election or if the evidence they found was as damning as on the salary-suppresion conspiracy:
http://techcrunch.com/2012/01/19/dam...trust-lawsuit/

[AnemicOak]

Scott Turrow, President of the Authors Guild, says the DOJ actions are "Grim News"...

http://blog.authorsguild.org/2012/03...row-grim-news/

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by Phogg

Grammar day was Sunday, Harry.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Scott Turrow, President of the Authors Guild, says the DOJ actions are "Grim News"...

http://blog.authorsguild.org/2012/03...row-grim-news/

Another reason for consumers to applaud the DOJ.
If Turrow, king of Bizzarro-ebook world, thinks its a bad idea, the odds that they're doing the right thing goes waaayyy up.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Scott Turrow, President of the Authors Guild, says the DOJ actions are "Grim News"...

http://blog.authorsguild.org/2012/03...row-grim-news/

Fascinating, how Amazon is guilty of "using e-book discounting to destroy bookselling" by releasing ebooks when the hardcovers come out. He compares it to Netflix releasing digital movies when movies are in the theatres... and fails to say, "publishers who think this is a bad idea were free to just not sell those ebooks yet."

Of course, trying that gets them flamed and boycotted. But that's not "because of Amazon;" it's because the public wants ebooks at the same time as hardcovers, just like they wanted cassette tapes at the same time as vinyl albums. Unlike the theatre/Netflix comparison, paper books aren't normally consumed in public and only once; they're brought home to be enjoyed at one's leisure. Just like an ebook.

Our concern about bookstores isn’t rooted in sentiment: bookstores are critical to modern bookselling. Marketing studies consistently show that readers are far more adventurous in their choice of books when in a bookstore than when shopping online.

Perhaps because *bookstores don't have enough stock* that people specifically want, so they have to try something new or go home empty-handed. John Locke's overnight success says that people will indeed take a chance on new ebook authors.

He mostly seems to be ranting about how ebooks are destroying bookstores, and that's why agency pricing is so important. Did I miss something? Have physical bookstores been thriving since agency pricing went into place?