Presumed guilty until proven innocent. If you can afford it.

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Oh, I dunno, let me think, hmm.... How about pay attention to what their kids are doing on the computer, especially after getting a few warnings?

Your kid, your network, your responsibility.

Do you have kids? Do you keep an eye on them 24/7? I sincerely doubt that.

We're talking about teens here, and teens will try to flex some boundaries.

So, imagine. Two kids, talking at school about this awesome song. Kid1 tells Kid2 where you can find that song. Kid2 knows that he's not supposed to download "illegal" stuff. But he really wants that song and his pocket money for that month is already gone. So, Kid2 waits till his parent is gone from the house for 5 minutes. And downloads that song.

Other option: Kid2 knows waaaaaaaay more than Parent1 and Parent2 how a computer works. Even with Parent1 or Parent2 sitting beside Kid2, Kid2 can still get "illegal" stuff simply because his parents have absolutely no idea what he's doing.

I agree that you as parent should do the most to prevent it. But I doubt you can prevent it for 100% except by removing all PC's in the house (or double locking them). You're in luck if you actually know how to shut down the required gates on your firewall or know how to use a proxy.

[ignacio ferrer]

Originally Posted by Chi Cygni

All weekend, from crawling out of bed until 9 pm with breaks for food when he keeps us waiting when everything is on the table (facebook, shooting games, whatnot). It is a computer addict in the making. Yes he was offered alternatives but it falls on deaf ears.

I would say, he is an addict already.
Education which exhausts itself in offering alternatives is the opposite of education - what about telling the brat what to do and what your expectations are?
But who knows - maybe he his a genius in the making ...

[Chi Cygni]

Originally Posted by ignacio ferrer

I would say, he is an addict already.
Education which exhausts itself in offering alternatives is the opposite of education - what about telling the brat what to do and what your expectations are?
But who knows - maybe he his a genius in the making ...

Problem is I have no say here nor can I put my foot down. He is not my son and not living with us permanently. I keep nagging his father and highlighting the problem but the ultimate solution is not in my hands. But I vow to learn from this not to create such situation again later.

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by ignacio ferrer

What the heck are families supposed to do when their teen start steeling, bullying, lying, running up phone bills, [expletive deleted] around, whatever - that would not be easily detected either ...

There does not have to be a computer in the house that they can turn on, they don't need a cell phone, and maybe parents might arrange work schedules so one is always home when their kid is not in school...to which they take him and from which they retrieve him. Having ANY unsupervised private time becomes something which has to be earned.

Call me old fashioned.

[ignacio ferrer]

Originally Posted by Phogg

There does not have to be a computer in the house that they can turn on, they don't need a cell phone, and maybe parents might arrange work schedules so one is always home when their kid is not in school...to which they take him and from which they retrieve him. Having ANY unsupervised private time becomes something which has to be earned.

Call me old fashioned.

In my opinion using a computer is not synonymous with playing games, watching movies etc.
It could be used for educational purposes.
It all comes down to the value system of the family - not the technical equipment.
Call me old fashioned.

[bla]

aaaaaaand just how would they stop anyone getting internet access?. T Here are1000's of open WAPs all over the place. every other coffee house has open wifi. It is totally unenforceable just a scare tactic

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by bla

aaaaaaand just how would they stop anyone getting internet access?

You mean, what would happen if the Daily Mail headline actually reflected reality? That's highly speculative.

[HansTWN]

Well, nobody says it is easy being a parent. What do you do when your child goes shoplifting or harassing old people? Can you always just say "there is nothing I can do?"

The penalties are not exactly harsh, the idea is not to stop every single downloader, it is to make things more difficult and to have people take some responsibility.

[plib]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Oh, I dunno, let me think, hmm.... How about pay attention to what their kids are doing on the computer, especially after getting a few warnings?

Your kid, your network, your responsibility.

Absolutely. To that end could you please tell me the specific steps you would advise me to take to block Hamachi?

Thanks.

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Well, nobody says it is easy being a parent. What do you do when your child goes shoplifting or harassing old people? Can you always just say "there is nothing I can do?"

The penalties are not exactly harsh, the idea is not to stop every single downloader, it is to make things more difficult and to have people take some responsibility.

No, you'd talk to your kid about it. But if the kid does it again (you know, some kids just don't want to follow the rules, whatever the parents say or do), at least the parents won't be banned from entering that shop...

And think of this one:

2 parents, 4 kids. Mother downloads a song, completely ignorant of any laws. They get a warning, father and mother discuss this and find out about the law. Good, father and mother won't download again. Then Kid1 downloads a song, because, you know, it's cool to download a song. Warning #2 is sent out. Parents talk to Kids, don't do it again! But Kid3 has a friend, who used the Family PC to download that song for his friend, Kid3. And boom, bye bye internet for the entire family!

[howyoudoin]

The punishment is far too disproportionate to the crime. The state doesn't prevent bank robbers from maintaining bank accounts. Shoplifters aren't banned from ever shopping again.

The onus should be on the party affected by the piracy to pinpoint and prove the guilt of the specific individual responsible. It cannot pin the blame on the families of a pirate any more than it can punish the family of a robber for 'not keeping an eye on him and preventing him from robbing someone'.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by bla

aaaaaaand just how would they stop anyone getting internet access?. T Here are1000's of open WAPs all over the place. every other coffee house has open wifi. It is totally unenforceable just a scare tactic

I would expect those to be the first to lose their internet connection because they will get their warning letters in very quick succession.

[ignacio ferrer]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

No, you'd talk to your kid about it. But if the kid does it again (you know, some kids just don't want to follow the rules, whatever the parents say or do), at least the parents won't be banned from entering that shop...

And think of this one:

2 parents, 4 kids. Mother downloads a song, completely ignorant of any laws. They get a warning, father and mother discuss this and find out about the law. Good, father and mother won't download again. Then Kid1 downloads a song, because, you know, it's cool to download a song. Warning #2 is sent out. Parents talk to Kids, don't do it again! But Kid3 has a friend, who used the Family PC to download that song for his friend, Kid3. And boom, bye bye internet for the entire family!

Lets be reasonable here. Practically this applies to torrent downloads. So before you can do this, you have to install software.
I f you are just downloading without uploading you are in the clear - practically.
No reason to be hysteric ...

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by howyoudoin

The punishment is far too disproportionate to the crime.

What do you think would be proportionate?

My next question will be: How does that compare to the actual consequence under the British law which was upheld this week -- eternally repeated warning letters?

[howyoudoin]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

What do you think would be proportionate?

Fine/imprisonment similar to how a person who steals or distributes unlawfully would be treated.

My next question will be: How does that compare to the actual consequence under the British law which was upheld this week -- eternally repeated warning letters?

That's on the weaker end of the scale.