Five hundred new fairytales discovered in Germany - Page 2

Sil_liS · 03-07-2012, 09:27 AM

Would they be part of the public domain? They were public before they were collected, and they were collected 150 years ago, so they should be public, right?

anamardoll · 03-07-2012, 11:26 AM

Has this been published anywhere yet? Because I would totally love to read it.

carpetmojo · 03-07-2012, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wannabee

Good call carpetmojo, however, I know our current government has been telling fairie stories at every opportunity they have.

Well, it's what they're paid for, innit.......

tilia · 03-07-2012, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anamardoll

Has this been published anywhere yet? Because I would totally love to read it.

They have started working on translating them to English. A few fairytales were published last year in a collection I think is called "Prinz Roßzwifl"(probably only available in German).

A short story can be read here: The Turnip Princess

murraypaul · 03-07-2012, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

Would they be part of the public domain? They were public before they were collected, and they were collected 150 years ago, so they should be public, right?

An English translation would be protected by copyright.

dadioflex · 03-07-2012, 02:43 PM

http://writebadlywell.blogspot.com/2...at-random.html

Billi · 03-07-2012, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xg4bx

lol i figured this would have been somewhat big news there, historical discoveries really don't happen very often.

Maybe it has been big news here, but if then already three years ago. The book with the 500 newly found fairy tales has been published in 2010, you can find it for instance here:

http://www.amazon.de/Schönwerth-Prin...152377&sr=8-12

I couldn't find an ebook version although this is in the public domain.

apbschmitz · 03-07-2012, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xg4bx

"… at about the same time as the Grimm brothers were collecting the fairytales that have since charmed adults and children around the world…"

"Charmed." That's probably not the description chosen by anyone who has tried to put a child to sleep by reading a Grimm fairy tale or two. All those light tales of maidens with their hands chopped off, etc.… Take it from me, they don't settle the little nippers into a quiet night.

carpetmojo · 03-07-2012, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich_D

It's an election year. I've already heard 500 new fairytales in just the primaries...

I read a quote today attributed to the evangelical (apparently, just what the Republicans need) Santorum, when asked about climate change/warming etc..
Quick as a flash, he had the questioner down and out with the obviously well researched , " So, they say CO2 is toxic ? Well go tell that to the plants !"

Yes, I think big business has a chap here they can work with......

anamardoll · 03-07-2012, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apbschmitz

"Charmed." That's probably not the description chosen by anyone who has tried to put a child to sleep by reading a Grimm fairy tale or two. All those light tales of maidens with their hands chopped off, etc.… Take it from me, they don't settle the little nippers into a quiet night.

Depends on the edition. Ironically, the Grimms brothers themselves sanitized the tales they collected a LOT. They're the ones largely responsible for evil "step-" parents. Apparently, the brothers were disturbed by mothers wanting to kill their children and fathers wanting to marry their daughters and decided that the best "fix" would be to make them step-parents.

/step-parent

Sil_liS · 03-08-2012, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murraypaul

An English translation would be protected by copyright.

I can use google translate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anamardoll

Depends on the edition. Ironically, the Grimms brothers themselves sanitized the tales they collected a LOT. They're the ones largely responsible for evil "step-" parents. Apparently, the brothers were disturbed by mothers wanting to kill their children and fathers wanting to marry their daughters and decided that the best "fix" would be to make them step-parents.

/step-parent

This is disturbing.

anamardoll · 03-08-2012, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

I can use google translate.

This is disturbing.

Google Translate would give you gibberish even if it were a modern text. I doubt Google Translate can handle German from five hundred years ago.

However, if the manuscript is PD, other translators (assuming they are given access) can create their own English versions.

And, yeah, if you're a fairy tale enthusiast, there is a great deal of variation in tale rendition. The Grimms themselves put out, iirc, twelve different editions in their lifetime, each edition more sanitized and censored than the next. There's a quasi-decent book out there called, I think, "The Hard Facts of Grimms' Fairy Tales" by Maria Tartar. The book itself was lackluster in terms of tale-analysis, but the biography of the brothers and their work was very interesting.

QuantumIguana · 03-08-2012, 09:49 AM

One thing that we tend to think of fairy tales and folk tales as stories just for children, but it wasn't always like that. These were the stories that a culture told. It's like folk songs, we tend to think of them as children's songs, but they weren't always just children's songs. It's too easy to forget there was a world before recorded music when people sang if they wanted music.

As far as translations go, Google Translate will work for getting the gist of a text, I use it all the time. For telling a story, it might not be so appealing, you generally want more than just the gist of the story. Of course you can make your own translation if you have access to the original documents, and sometimes it is possible to control them. If you hold the only copy of the original, no one else can make a translation.

anamardoll · 03-08-2012, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuantumIguana

One thing that we tend to think of fairy tales and folk tales as stories just for children, but it wasn't always like that. These were the stories that a culture told. It's like folk songs, we tend to think of them as children's songs, but they weren't always just children's songs. It's too easy to forget there was a world before recorded music when people sang if they wanted music.

There's a really old version of Red Riding Hood that seems to have been told as a strip-tease, with the story-teller "undressing" for bed with the wolf.

And the oldest, oldest version of Red Riding Hood that I'm aware of just has her being eaten in the forest entirely, not even from straying from the path. Just... eaten. It *seems* to have been told to children as an explanation that life is random and cruel and will sometimes just crap on you for no good reason.

WT Sharpe · 03-08-2012, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anamardoll

Google Translate would give you gibberish even if it were a modern text. I doubt Google Translate can handle German from five hundred years ago.

However, if the manuscript is PD, other translators (assuming they are given access) can create their own English versions.

And, yeah, if you're a fairy tale enthusiast, there is a great deal of variation in tale rendition. The Grimms themselves put out, iirc, twelve different editions in their lifetime, each edition more sanitized and censored than the next. There's a quasi-decent book out there called, I think, "The Hard Facts of Grimms' Fairy Tales" by Maria Tartar. The book itself was lackluster in terms of tale-analysis, but the biography of the brothers and their work was very interesting.

Is this the same as the first edition you're talking about?

http://www.amazon.com/Brothers-Grimm.../dp/1450517382

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03-07-2012, 09:27 AM	#16
Sil_liS Wizard Posts: 4,896 Karma: 33602910 Join Date: Oct 2010 Device: PocketBook 903 & 360+	Would they be part of the public domain? They were public before they were collected, and they were collected 150 years ago, so they should be public, right?

03-07-2012, 11:26 AM	#17
anamardoll Chasing Butterflies Posts: 3,132 Karma: 5074169 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: American Southwest Device: Uses batteries.	Has this been published anywhere yet? Because I would totally love to read it.

03-07-2012, 02:43 PM	#21
dadioflex Dyslexic Count Posts: 526 Karma: 5041991 Join Date: Aug 2008 Device: Palm TX, Advent Vega, iPad, iPod Touch, Kindle	http://writebadlywell.blogspot.com/2...at-random.html

03-08-2012, 09:49 AM	#28
QuantumIguana Philosopher Posts: 2,034 Karma: 18736532 Join Date: Jan 2012 Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2 gen, Kindle Fire 1st Gen, Kindle Touch	One thing that we tend to think of fairy tales and folk tales as stories just for children, but it wasn't always like that. These were the stories that a culture told. It's like folk songs, we tend to think of them as children's songs, but they weren't always just children's songs. It's too easy to forget there was a world before recorded music when people sang if they wanted music. As far as translations go, Google Translate will work for getting the gist of a text, I use it all the time. For telling a story, it might not be so appealing, you generally want more than just the gist of the story. Of course you can make your own translation if you have access to the original documents, and sometimes it is possible to control them. If you hold the only copy of the original, no one else can make a translation.